Vetting Shills and Trolls: Classic Examples

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Vetting Shills and Trolls: Classic Examples

Unread postby Matt on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:20 am

[Admin Notice by SCS: Here I will be assembling classic examples of how shills and/or trolls have been vetted on Cluesforum over the years. The stated “Shills and Trolls” description (in the topic heading) is meant to encompass a wide range of disruption and/or disinformation tactics.

They are worth keeping track of, since I consider their aims to be (at least in part) an ongoing Discredit By Association (DBA) campaign of sorts, albeit with a varying degree of sophistication from one to the next. This should also help to de-clutter the threads they originated in.

Please keep in mind that this compilation is far from complete, and I will continue to work on it as time allows. But I thought it was enough to go ahead and post.

It will be interesting to see if and how the “Shills and Trolls” evolve over time, given our methods of dealing with them. Hopefully this thread will be instructive as we carry on.

SCS B) ]


Greetings and salutations.

I noticed a link to an image hosted on my website (one of the Robert Clark photos here: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=807&start=120), so I figured I would drop in and read about it. Then I wanted to post some info to contribute to that discussion... which led me to the required introduction step here. http://www.911conspiracy.tv has been my hobby for about 3 years.

I do not agree with the TV/video fakery theories posted here, with the exception of the Naudet video being staged to have a video of the 1st plane crash and an instant propaganda classic... which I hope to acquire in hoi's original 2002 VHS-to-digital rendering for my collection. (saw that here: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=459)

I posted on 911movement.org back in the day, and got interested in the 2nd hit videos... which I've collected here: http://www.911conspiracy.tv/2nd_hit.html -- in a vain attempt to unveil some discrepancy -- then when Simon created his Addendum videos alleging WTC collapse video fakery I figured I'd better collect those. So I did. With interest in the TV broadcasts, I filled up hard drives and uploaded many of those, too.

Now with the release of a deluge of video and images from the International Center for 9/11 Studies NIST FOIA available at http://www.911datasets.org, I've attempted to uncover the new and update the old. I should be able to help here at the forum, but not in the support of TV/video fakery.
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby nonhocapito on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:53 am

Matt wrote:I should be able to help here at the forum, but not in the support of TV/video fakery.


Sigh... you did read all the research here, looked at all the evidence, and are still convinced that there was no fakery going on? Boy you really have faith in the images don't you. But I wonder, other than "acquiring" all these videos, and offering them on your very large website (which must cost you a fortune in bandwidth, BTW... How do you afford it, if I may ask?), have you ever looked at them critically?

I have here the whole NIST set plus the three versions of Naudet, and they're fun to watch... so good luck with those.

If you go through the NIST to "update the old", I would suggest you to try and contact the supposed amateur filmmakers who took those videos. Contact Trottenberg, Moleshwort, Whalberg and the like, if you can (I know you won't be able, since they do not exist) and ask them what do they think of the fact that the videos in possession of NIST are incomplete, have missing parts, or broken pixels, compared to the original versions they supposedly shared with the world. Maybe we will eventually learn why the NIST trove only appears to be so large and unquestionable, when in fact it is a farraginous collection of short remastered compositions of fakery and deceit...

I also bet that if you hang around with us long enough it'll turn out you will never "buy" the "total fakery" but are willing to believe the "Khalezov" theory. Correct me if I'm wrong... :P
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby reel.deal on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:39 pm

Matt wrote:wanted to post some info to contribute to...
I do not agree with the TV/video fakery theories...
-- in a vain attempt to unveil some discrepancy --
I should be able to help here at the forum, but not in the support of TV/video fakery.


mm hmm... uh huh..... carry on...

Image
Last edited by reel.deal on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby simonshack on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:16 pm

Matt wrote:
Now with the release of a deluge of video and images from the International Center for 9/11 Studies NIST FOIA available at http://www.911datasets.org, I've attempted to uncover the new and update the old. I should be able to help here at the forum, but not in the support of TV/video fakery.


Matt,

I have 'known' you and your site for a long time and I think it's only fair to inform all readers here that you have, on various occasions, been attacking my work along with the sadly familiar September Clues 'debunking' crowd.

The 'deluge' of new imagery that you mention, purportedly 'released through a FOIA act by NIST', has been duly examined on this forum and roundly exposed - under countless aspects - as just another pool of fraudulent footage, much of it turning out to be just freshly re-rendered clips, mostly from Steven Rosenbaum's 'Camera Planet'' shit-old 'amateur-videographer's' material I have collected throughout the years.

In fact, that newly released material only reflects the brazen insolence of the 9/11 perps as they ask us to place our trust in what amounts to the most laughable chain of custody imaginable: "Hey, NIST released the tapes, folks - so the tapes must be trustworthy and legit! Why, they're the brainy scientists/patriots who even calculated for us laymen exactly how the towers collapsed " :lol:

Seriously now, I have every reason to believe the only reason this bunch of phony clips was released (in friggin' 2010!!) was to muddy the waters and hypnotize people with more - and often inexplicably crisper, higher-resolution material. All this numbingly lame operation reeks of desperation - and is evidently motivated by the perps' all-important need to gain time. Well, we on this forum will not play this time-wasting game, so let me pre-emptively warn you that this NIST "deluge" of forged imagery will find little space on this forum.

As for your own space on this forum, Matt, you will have to earn it - as per our recently updated rules of admission. Kindly read the March Update on the first page of this thread: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2346356
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby fbenario on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:05 am

Matt wrote:I spent a lot of time looking into the no planes theory. It was fascinating, but plane debris, swaying tower, DNA, and witnesses added up.

Are you a comedian? Are you joking?

DNA my ass. The only way for you to consider that DNA proves anything at all about anything is for you to assume that EVERY news item from the government and/or mainstream, paid, controlled media is released/broadcast in good faith and is an accurate reflection of something real about the world.

What is wrong with you? NO ONE who claims to think for himself could possibly believe this.

Are you a prankster? There is no possible way anyone who is not a government shill or agent would ever think of believing this malarkey.

You claim to have been analyzing 9/11 for years? Bulls**t.

Read the Vicsim Report:
http://www.septemberclues.info/vicsims.htm

You fool.
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby Matt on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:06 am

fbenario wrote:
Matt wrote:I spent a lot of time looking into the no planes theory. It was fascinating, but plane debris, swaying tower, DNA, and witnesses added up.

Are you a comedian? Are you joking?

DNA my ass. The only way for you to consider that DNA proves anything at all about anything is for you to assume that EVERY news item from the government and/or mainstream, paid, controlled media is released/broadcast in good faith and is an accurate reflection of something real about the world.

What is wrong with you? NO ONE who claims to think for himself could possibly believe this.

Are you a prankster? There is no possible way anyone who is not a government shill or agent would ever think of believing this malarkey.

You claim to have been analyzing 9/11 for years? Bulls**t.

Read the Vicsim Report:


People died.

To accomodate the bereaved crowds, a Family Assistance Center was set up September 17th at Pier 94, where victims brought DNA-laced items like razors and toothbrushes, along with dental records (Martin Mbugua and Dave Goldiner, "Grieving Kin Continue to Wait for Word of Missing," nydailynews.com, Sept. 18, 2001).

Perhaps due to their protective and distinctive clothing, all but one of the 343 firefighters were identified. (Rick Hampson and Martha T. Moore, "Closure from 9/11 Elusive for Many," USA Today online, Sept. 4, 2003.) This fact goes far in describing the painstaking effort given to the search for human remains... for some physical symbol - no matter how small - to lay to rest in a proper burial.

Shaler and the other New York pathologists [a staff of 105 scientists] sent some of the most damaged human fragments to private forensics labs that specialize in advanced DNA-retrieval techniques. One was the Bode lab in Lorton, Va., which is known for extracting genetic material from bones. The New York team gave the lab a seemingly impossible challenge: to identify 12,000 burnt bone fragments. The bones "had been burning in the rubble at extreme temperatures," says Mike Cariola, the lab's director, "and we were only getting DNA samples on half the ones we tested." Cariola recalls that "some pieces of bone were so charred that if you held it with two fingers it would disintegrate."

- Eve Conant, "Remains of the Day," Newsweek, Jan. 12, 2009

A story on genomeweb.com tells us that "M-FISys [Mass Fatality Identification System] was developed by Gene Codes in the months following the Sept. 11, 2001, tragedy under a $10 million contract with New York City's OCME [Office of Chief Medical Examiner]. According to the city, that amount was later increased to $13 million." According to an ABC News story, "Forensic Identification of 9/11 Victims Ends -- More Than 1,000 Victims Unidentified Due to Technological Limits" (Bill Blakemore, Feb. 23, 2005), 57 percent of the victims were ID'd using DNA, dental records, or jewelry.

I won't bother you with the "terrorists" DNA reports. LOL. Believe what you will. Your Vicsim report is offensive, ridiculous bulls**t ... which I refuse to read, by the way.

About the plane debris, you might get a kick out of my (Ace Baker calls it his) Engine Cannon Theory ... debunked by the building sway, of course -- http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpitout/topic/1930887/1/ -- not to mention how huge the thing would have needed to be. The starboard engine of "UAL175" exited the corner of the 81st floor, flew creating a spiral of smoke, and hit a building at 50 Murray St., the debris from which is seen in photos and video. If you think it was planted you are the fool.
- - -

Equinox, the camera angle changes in those last seconds before the 2nd hit always made me wonder. Your point concerning the timeliness of those changes is very interesting, although the explosions weren't synched in the GIF. The reasoning that the footage aired 16 seconds later than the event might need to be scrapped. The Johnstayhome video turns the camera from the fireball on LIVE TV out the window to the WTC... which seems to match up. The ABC clock turns over to 9:03 right after impact. NY1 LIVE clock changes right at impact. CNN changes to 9:03 one second before. NIST finally placed the 2nd hit at 9:02:59.

Now the radar returns were screwed up. See http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpitout/topic/3795841/1/. And we know there were false blips on some (?) radar screens for the war games. Fakery!

But TV fakery, with all the cameras out on the streets? I count 110 cameras running at 9:03 (with worldwide circulated video). Although many videos seem edited, perhaps the cameras having been turned off momentarily, leaving about 90 that were running during the plane impact, about 30 of which weren't positioned or aimed properly to see the plane. 58 videos showing the plane. 29 still photographers captured it. Were there any reports of malfunctioning cameras due to the alleged HERF/EMP? How about the 100+ cameras (with worldwide circulated video) that caught each collapse?

Simon said,
so let me pre-emptively warn you that this NIST "deluge" of forged imagery will find little space on this forum.


But the 9/11 videos are your primary concern. You're downloading it all, right?
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby simonshack on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:49 am

Matt wrote: Vicsim report is offensive, ridiculous bulls**t[/url] ... which I refuse to read, by the way.


Oh, ok. Instead, we are all supposed to read your proposed load of bullcrap spewed by the media - including raving inanities such as "DNA retrieved from jewelry"?

Btw, since you quote my last post addressed to you, I therefore assume that you have read it. Yet you simply ignore point blank my clearly worded request to abide with the forum rules:
simonshack wrote: As for your own space on this forum, Matt, you will have to earn it - as per our recently updated rules of admission. Kindly read the March Update on the first page of this thread: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2346356


Very well - good bye, then.

Let this serve as a forewarning to any other trolls wishing to enter this forum and waste everyone's time.
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby brianv on Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:15 pm

To accomodate the bereaved crowds, a Family Assistance Center was set up September 17th at Pier 94, where victims brought DNA-laced items like razors and toothbrushes, along with dental records (Martin Mbugua and Dave Goldiner, "Grieving Kin Continue to Wait for Word of Missing," nydailynews.com, Sept. 18, 2001).


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Your Vicsim report is offensive, ridiculous bulls**t ... which I refuse to read, by the way.


:rolleyes: :lol: :lol:

How long has it been? How many victims family members have joined to berate us?
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby SmokingGunII on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:42 pm

Oh dear, almost 10 years on and they still can't do better than "Matt"!

I was hoping Matt could have explained how all of this jewellery that helped identify so many vicsims survived the "extreme temperatures", whilst the indestructible black boxes couldn't. Meanwhile, our old friend Edna Cintron was able to tiptoe over the burning wreckage of HAHA11 to wave to gathering Hollywood & media employees that had exclusive access to the only functioning cameras in Manhattan. :rolleyes:
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Vetting Shills and Trolls: Classic Examples

Unread postby pryingopen3rdeye on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:28 pm

*post removed*

now i see this hole introduction forum is only to give people a chance to ridicule you for anything they can

sorry i didnt put more effort into grammar on the last post, i didn't realize before hand that this was high school english class, i was under some strange assumption that this was an internet forum which purpose is not grammar critique

go get a job as a school english teacher,
Last edited by pryingopen3rdeye on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: REQUIRED: Introduce Yourself

Unread postby fbenario on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:22 am

pryingopen3rdeye wrote:HELLO!! just stumbled upon this forum and am very interested in it, for the last three years i have dove in to researching.........truth, to put it simply,


basicaly it all started when i found the website ats / abovetopsecret it was the first forum i found that did such a great job putting together global news and analyzing details of it, after three years of monitoring that site very closely i am very conviced it has cia behind its scenes at least some of its moderators even some of my own posts have been censored from its site which i recorded and placed on youtube on my channel :D this is only my opinion from observation, no proof :/ i have become oh so tired of the attitude of the posters on that site and the censorship on it so for a while now i have been hoping to find a very nice forum that will surpass them and not censor when unnecessary, i have those hopes for this site,

i am an american mid 20's Ron Paul supporter, i truly pray to god he is our next president, i do not subscribe to any organized religion but that doesnt stop me from believing in god and soul,

i cant even watch main stream media anymore without getting very angry and shouting at the television the truth i know over the lies i hear them saying, its horrible,

anywho i know i dont come with a phd in investigative journalism or any thing for that matter, but a strong interest in the truth a curiosity that will not abide anything other then convincing evidence to prove fact, an open mind which is willing to see any perspective im capable of, and a will to strive to see even more then that.

i hope to be amazed by this site, thank you to the ones running it for all you do, :D

You're an American? You know how to use complete sentences, capitalization, and understandable grammar. You need to do so.
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Re: Vetting Shills and Trolls: Classic Examples

Unread postby lux on Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:55 pm

^ The "JFK assassination" has been pretty thoroughly discussed here.

Three recent threads I know of are:
- The Age of Media Fakery: Threshold of the Simulation
- Was Oswald Really Shot?
- JFK Zapruder film re-touched
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Re: (Deceptive “Topic”) Bombing/WTC connection

Unread postby nonhocapito on Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:42 am

revolutionphase1 wrote:They did a much better job with the WTC.


How do you know, have you seen the WTC being demolished?

BTW, the title of this thread is misleading, as you don't suggest nor explain any interesting connection between the two events.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Unread postby nonhocapito on Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:54 am

revolutionphase1 wrote:Is it possible the JFK assasination was another attempt at digitially manipulating a certain event to induce fear?
Who witnessed him get shot? How many angles do we have of the shot? How many frames are missing? How many actors would it take? How many actors were in Lord of the Rings battle scenes?


revolutionphase1, what possessed you to post this question in a completely unrelated thread? :huh:
I am not deleting your post right away only so that you 1) read the kind answer that lux wrote for you and 2) realize that this is no way to contribute to our forum. You have to figure out what the different areas are for and which threads are already open that you can contribute to.
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Re: Vetting Shills and Trolls: Classic Examples

Unread postby revolutionphase1 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:58 am

Its not hard to draw the similarities between these two events.

Here is an example of 1

At 1:29 In the video above, a reporter is "startled"... seemingly unaware of the exact time the building would come down.

Now if you look at this clip, a reporter is interviewing a Mother with her baby at the 3:00 mark - when all of a sudden WTC 7 collapses in the background. We are looking at a very similar clip here.



full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atbrn4k55lA
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