This is some old research I conducted that I actually forgot about. As you see in the other thread I listed only FOUR plane victims are listed in both SSDI and Victims Comp Fund?
Well guess what out of the 429 total names listed in the Victims Comp Fund, only 59 of those names appear in the SSDI. That's only 14.7%! And that's again INCLUDING the people who were listed in the building.
You know one of the most difficult parts of NPT for me to get my mind around is the idea that the BUILDING fatalities were fake to. But with the Vicsim report, and with a discovery like this, I think it would be foolish to not accept that possibility.
Not to mention if anything that makes it easier to recruit perps if it's not going to result in thousands of deaths, or at least easier to sell the public on the idea that perps would do that level of damage.
Considering the key part of Operation Northwoods is all about mock victims, I think this is interesting. I'm thinking about looking up ALL the names in the SSDI. Now this is obviously a tedious task and it would be nice to have a little help. Perhaps I'll start with the first letter of the alphabet. And just look up all the "A" names and see how many of them are actually listed.
Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In SSDI
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simonshack
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Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Dear ATTC,
An independent journalist in Oregon, Ersun Warncke, actually did perform this tedious task and came up with this data:
Out of 2,970 9/11 victims listed, only 446 appear in the Social Security death index. Of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/sept ... ons-ew.php
The two of us had a lengthy chat on Skype this summer and he turned that into a really good article/interview.
Please leave a comment there - on the Salem News - if you feel like it !
An independent journalist in Oregon, Ersun Warncke, actually did perform this tedious task and came up with this data:
Out of 2,970 9/11 victims listed, only 446 appear in the Social Security death index. Of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/sept ... ons-ew.php
The two of us had a lengthy chat on Skype this summer and he turned that into a really good article/interview.
Please leave a comment there - on the Salem News - if you feel like it !
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Ok so the past 3 days I just did the tedious job myself. As painful as it was, my curiosity just was too much as I saw how incredibly empty the list was. For instance there are 100 "A" names. Well only 27 of them are listed in the SSDI. And I made sure that I tried different surnames for spanish names and everything.
Anyways, I used this list:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62151,00.html
And I confirmed ages of people using the CNN memorials:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memori ... index.html
Why? Because you'd be surprised how obvious it is that the perps just looked up someone who died on that day and tried to pretend they were an employee of a company. For instance, there may be some guy named John Doe who obviously died of old age at 90. But someone has his exact same name that the perps try to pretend was some 23 year old employee. Incredibly lazy really.
And BTW, I see what sparked the Vicsim report when you see how incredibly fake some of those pictures look. Although Im not sure if I ever would have noticed if it wasn't pointed out. This whole research I guess is incredible considering I guess it's such a big lie I guess the perps never thought we'd look into it, or maybe they just are that arrogant.
Anyways, after tediously tediiously checking that list that only includes non plane victims, that list from Fox has 2652 total names.
But only 487 names out of those 2652 (18.4%) are listed in the SSDI. That's actually a few more than whoever else did that research. So either he missed a few or who knows maybe they added a few more since he last checked. Although I think they are way too lazy or don't have the means to make it add up to 2500+. Maybe if this information became more mainstream they would do that, then again, I still doubt it.
All they need is a few real families, or a few shills and they will try to discredit this research by bringing them on TV and saying how dare we suggest it?
Anyways, I used this list:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62151,00.html
And I confirmed ages of people using the CNN memorials:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memori ... index.html
Why? Because you'd be surprised how obvious it is that the perps just looked up someone who died on that day and tried to pretend they were an employee of a company. For instance, there may be some guy named John Doe who obviously died of old age at 90. But someone has his exact same name that the perps try to pretend was some 23 year old employee. Incredibly lazy really.
And BTW, I see what sparked the Vicsim report when you see how incredibly fake some of those pictures look. Although Im not sure if I ever would have noticed if it wasn't pointed out. This whole research I guess is incredible considering I guess it's such a big lie I guess the perps never thought we'd look into it, or maybe they just are that arrogant.
Anyways, after tediously tediiously checking that list that only includes non plane victims, that list from Fox has 2652 total names.
But only 487 names out of those 2652 (18.4%) are listed in the SSDI. That's actually a few more than whoever else did that research. So either he missed a few or who knows maybe they added a few more since he last checked. Although I think they are way too lazy or don't have the means to make it add up to 2500+. Maybe if this information became more mainstream they would do that, then again, I still doubt it.
All they need is a few real families, or a few shills and they will try to discredit this research by bringing them on TV and saying how dare we suggest it?
Last edited by ATTC on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Well here's something more interesting I'm in the middle of working on BTW. What makes me think that some of these people are real is you will be surprised how many of these people worked for either Cantor Fitzgerald or Marsh and McLennan or Fidiciary Trust INternational. I'm in the midst of counting but just from looking at it, I'm going to say 3/4 of the people who are not listed as Rescue Workers are in that category.
Well that's interesting because remember the guy Richard Andrew Grove was talking about how it's a big insurance fraud conspiracy that was going on as well including that company which actually bought out the company that did the Security for 9/11
He said there was a meeting I believe at Windows on the World or something, another company that has a ton of people listed in the SSDI.
What if say 82% of the people are fake to pad the numbers, but say that 18% or at least a chunk of it was real so they could make even more money, kind of like the insider trading. LIke so many multiple agendas going on 9/11. The big one for war, drug trade, control of oil etc but then small time things like insider trading and massive insurance fraud, basically killing so many birds with one stone.
So anyways right now compiling how many people worked for these few handful of companies and where those companies were located. Because if the only people listed in the SSDI are people who were in the area where the "planes" struck (aka shaped charged explosions) then that actually would make sense! Obviously no skyscraper would be 100% empty on a busy morning would it? Why not kill the people who were on the floors where the explosion happened? The same people who won't later be alive to report on the construction that could have been going on, or whatever type of agenda there was perhaps along the lines of that risk management conspiracy that Richard Andrew Grove could be talking about if he's not blowing smoke.
That also makes the people who say the fireball down the elevator shaft look ridiculous if all the deaths are at the impact of the initial explosion.
The only thing that concerns me is that the perps read this board and will try to pad the stats. But again if they haven't done so by now, maybe they aren't worried.
Well that's interesting because remember the guy Richard Andrew Grove was talking about how it's a big insurance fraud conspiracy that was going on as well including that company which actually bought out the company that did the Security for 9/11
He said there was a meeting I believe at Windows on the World or something, another company that has a ton of people listed in the SSDI.
What if say 82% of the people are fake to pad the numbers, but say that 18% or at least a chunk of it was real so they could make even more money, kind of like the insider trading. LIke so many multiple agendas going on 9/11. The big one for war, drug trade, control of oil etc but then small time things like insider trading and massive insurance fraud, basically killing so many birds with one stone.
So anyways right now compiling how many people worked for these few handful of companies and where those companies were located. Because if the only people listed in the SSDI are people who were in the area where the "planes" struck (aka shaped charged explosions) then that actually would make sense! Obviously no skyscraper would be 100% empty on a busy morning would it? Why not kill the people who were on the floors where the explosion happened? The same people who won't later be alive to report on the construction that could have been going on, or whatever type of agenda there was perhaps along the lines of that risk management conspiracy that Richard Andrew Grove could be talking about if he's not blowing smoke.
That also makes the people who say the fireball down the elevator shaft look ridiculous if all the deaths are at the impact of the initial explosion.
The only thing that concerns me is that the perps read this board and will try to pad the stats. But again if they haven't done so by now, maybe they aren't worried.
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hoi.polloi
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Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
So you're saying there were some real deaths behind the fake looking pictures and names?
Which ones are real then? LOL
Perhaps only half of an airplane crashed into the WTC so half of it is real and the other half was faked, right?
Come on - they're all fake.
Which ones are real then? LOL
Perhaps only half of an airplane crashed into the WTC so half of it is real and the other half was faked, right?
Come on - they're all fake.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Obviously some sort of explosives brought down the towers correct? Why is it so unfathomable that people were killed in an initial explosion? Over half the people listed as real outside of rescue workers worked for either Marsh and McLennan or Cantor Fitzgerald. Obviously the main plot of 9/11 wouldn't be to take these people out but let's not overlook the fact that there could have been multiple levels of agendas of corruption going on that day. Again even down to the petty insider trading for those who had foreknowledge of the destruction that happened down town.
It doesn't have to be a plane. Whatever "exploded" if you will to set off the towers, it's pretty ridiculous to say that there is no possible way ANYONE died from that.
How could explosives powerful enough to take down a building not result in any deaths? And why would the WTC be completely vacant on 9/11?
I think the discovery of no planes has made people go too extreme in their opinions on 9/11. Sure TV Fakery is the head of the snake that exposes the media perps, but let's not pretend that the Twin Towers are still standing. Obviously SOMETHING brought down the towers, and whatever it was, the initial explosion to simulate a "plane" it's not that unfeasible that lives were lost.
And considering the alarming rate in which people who worked for less than handful of companies that dominate those records (Marsh and McLennan/ Cantor Fitzgerald, and Aon) again perhaps Mr. Grove is telling the truth after all.
It makes sense that the main people who have the most evidence that they were dead would be people near the initial explosion AND the rescue workers. The people on the floors in the initial explosion, because the human body doesn't survive anything like that, and the rescue workers because they were looking for people when the Towers came down, another act in which chances of survival are not exactly high. Remember the WTC Towers weren't exactly like Building 7 where people were long gone before the Towers fell. They had no idea those buildings were coming down.
It doesn't have to be a plane. Whatever "exploded" if you will to set off the towers, it's pretty ridiculous to say that there is no possible way ANYONE died from that.
How could explosives powerful enough to take down a building not result in any deaths? And why would the WTC be completely vacant on 9/11?
I think the discovery of no planes has made people go too extreme in their opinions on 9/11. Sure TV Fakery is the head of the snake that exposes the media perps, but let's not pretend that the Twin Towers are still standing. Obviously SOMETHING brought down the towers, and whatever it was, the initial explosion to simulate a "plane" it's not that unfeasible that lives were lost.
And considering the alarming rate in which people who worked for less than handful of companies that dominate those records (Marsh and McLennan/ Cantor Fitzgerald, and Aon) again perhaps Mr. Grove is telling the truth after all.
It makes sense that the main people who have the most evidence that they were dead would be people near the initial explosion AND the rescue workers. The people on the floors in the initial explosion, because the human body doesn't survive anything like that, and the rescue workers because they were looking for people when the Towers came down, another act in which chances of survival are not exactly high. Remember the WTC Towers weren't exactly like Building 7 where people were long gone before the Towers fell. They had no idea those buildings were coming down.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
When you say "confirmed" Death Certificate on file? You mean the SSDI isn't confirmed? Is there anyway you can confirm them?simonshack wrote:Dear ATTC,
An independent journalist in Oregon, Ersun Warncke, actually did perform this tedious task and came up with this data:
Out of 2,970 9/11 victims listed, only 446 appear in the Social Security death index. Of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/sept ... ons-ew.php
The two of us had a lengthy chat on Skype this summer and he turned that into a really good article/interview.
Please leave a comment there - on the Salem News - if you feel like it !
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hoi.polloi
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Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
The problem is what evidence you are using to support your belief in victims. You assume with no evidence that people didn't know the towers were coming down. Giuliani knew - and if the mayor knew then presumably so did others. Even David Ray Griffin points that out and he's probably a gatekeeper.
Enormous building demolitions occur all over the world safely with no deaths whatsoever. No deaths. All safe. Everyone informed. No dead. Get it?
Nobody. Not even an injury except perhaps a pinched nerve on the hand of the guy pushing down on the blast trigger. Do you understand how large scale events can happen with nobody dying?
I think your problem is you don't like the idea of victims removed from the table. That's fine. Maybe somebody died.
But who?
Since all reasonable evidence of victims has already been removed due to the fakery involved with the media reporting of every vicsim - who died?
Tell us their names.
Before you proceed with any sort of SSDI nonsense - which is just paperwork - give us some names and evidence of people who you think died. Who are they? Cough it up. Was it your cousin? You co-worker's best friend's aunt? WHO?
Have we not made ourselves perfectly clear what we are expecting from people when they publish even less evidence than the lying, pentagon-paid media itself presented to us on fake victims?
Here are my responses - see if you can pick up on my insistence on evidence of your claims:
Enormous building demolitions occur all over the world safely with no deaths whatsoever. No deaths. All safe. Everyone informed. No dead. Get it?
Nobody. Not even an injury except perhaps a pinched nerve on the hand of the guy pushing down on the blast trigger. Do you understand how large scale events can happen with nobody dying?
I think your problem is you don't like the idea of victims removed from the table. That's fine. Maybe somebody died.
But who?
Since all reasonable evidence of victims has already been removed due to the fakery involved with the media reporting of every vicsim - who died?
Tell us their names.
Before you proceed with any sort of SSDI nonsense - which is just paperwork - give us some names and evidence of people who you think died. Who are they? Cough it up. Was it your cousin? You co-worker's best friend's aunt? WHO?
Have we not made ourselves perfectly clear what we are expecting from people when they publish even less evidence than the lying, pentagon-paid media itself presented to us on fake victims?
Here are my responses - see if you can pick up on my insistence on evidence of your claims:
Perhaps, yes. There is no reliable evidence of what brought the towers down because the evidence was handled behind a media fakery deluge of false 'firefighter worker' scenes. (See the rubble topic)Obviously some sort of explosives brought down the towers correct?
It's very easy to imagine. I can also imagine my skin turning neon green very easily. It doesn't mean it's what happened. What the heck makes you think someone died? Was it all the fake victims that we have proven are visually and informationally problematic?Why is it so unfathomable that people were killed in an initial explosion?
LOL! Way to go passive on us. "Listed as real" where? Who listed any of the victims as real? CNN? NBC? Alex Jones?Over half the people listed as real outside of rescue workers worked for either Marsh and McLennan or Cantor Fitzgerald.
Which people are you talking about - the fake ones produced by Associated Press for public consumption?Obviously the main plot of 9/11 wouldn't be to take these people out
There were. Absolutely. But where is there evidence of the kind of corruption you are talking about?but let's not overlook the fact that there could have been multiple levels of agendas of corruption going on that day.
I say it is ridiculous of you to say that someone died because you are not a paid agent journalist so you were not allowed onto ground zero and so you don't know squat - like the rest of us. Where is your evidence?it's pretty ridiculous to say that there is no possible way ANYONE died
Easily. It's called a controlled demolition.How could explosives powerful enough to take down a building not result in any deaths?
Because they were going to demolish the towers.And why would the WTC be completely vacant on 9/11?
Oh really? I think the discovery of vicsims has made people go too extreme in their vicsim-hugging. You desperately want some aspect of the victim stories to be real because you were FOOLED. And you ARE a fool if you continue to buy the victim stories without presenting any evidence of any deaths. Again, where is the evidence?I think the discovery of no planes has made people go too extreme in their opinions on 9/11.
You are trying to tell me that buildings don't collapse unless people are inside them? I challenge you to an intellectual duel. I will race to post links to videos of controlled demolitions in which nobody died. You race to stop me. Let's see who wins.Sure TV Fakery is the head of the snake that exposes the media perps, but let's not pretend that the Twin Towers are still standing.
Who died, man? Who? Name a fucking name.Obviously SOMETHING brought down the towers, and whatever it was, the initial explosion to simulate a "plane" it's not that unfeasible that lives were lost.
What does Mister Grove have to say? Who does Mister Grove say is still living? Are any of the vicsim names among those he claims are living people or once-living people? Are you just going to take Mister Grove's word for it? Does he have no connection whatsoever to New York government or business? Is he your friend?And considering the alarming rate in which people who worked for less than handful of companies that dominate those records (Marsh and McLennan/ Cantor Fitzgerald, and Aon) again perhaps Mr. Grove is telling the truth after all.
What rescue workers? Who was let into the building?It makes sense that the main people who have the most evidence that they were dead would be people near the initial explosion AND the rescue workers.
What people? Who was inside the building and what explosion are you talking about?The people on the floors in the initial explosion
I am really sick of your twisted brainwashed imagination. Tell everyone which rescue workers were allowed inside the building....rescue workers because they were looking for people when the Towers came down, another act in which chances of survival are not exactly high.
Patently false.They had no idea those buildings were coming down.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one dies in a controlled demolition because people KNOW it's a controlled demolition and no one is even let anywhere near the building.
How can you compare a demolition job that everyone knows is a demo job so far in advance that they even bring their cameras to watch, and what happened on 9/11?
Speaking of which, why in the world would they want to evacuate the building so all the people who go outside can clearly SEE the explosion and no plane? They probably wanted as few people on the street as possible. And to warn hundreds of people in advance not to show up to work only to have the building come down would create all sorts of more problems for the perps in terms of people they would have to hush.
And don't you realize the burden of proof is on our court to prove that there were no victims?
And the real question is why is it so upsetting for you that there could have been victims? And don't you realize that even if there was a handful of real victims, that would be the only thing that people would need to point to to ruin the whole theory?
Why start with that extreme a position? Isn't falsifying the number of deaths by 20 fold worse enough? Isn't bringing down those towers bad enough? You think these people would be nice enough to not take away any lives on 9/11?
Why do you think TPTB are that nice that they would warn everybody in advance? If anything it would be just like those cruel maniacal people to at least insure SOME loss of life, but just to inflate the death toll to make sure we go through with their foreign and domestic policy
Yeah they may warn a few of their henchman like Rudolph "9/11" Guliani especially to use him as a political weapon, but they hardly care about the rest of the civilians that would just be pawns and collateral damage in their eyes.
How can you compare a demolition job that everyone knows is a demo job so far in advance that they even bring their cameras to watch, and what happened on 9/11?
Speaking of which, why in the world would they want to evacuate the building so all the people who go outside can clearly SEE the explosion and no plane? They probably wanted as few people on the street as possible. And to warn hundreds of people in advance not to show up to work only to have the building come down would create all sorts of more problems for the perps in terms of people they would have to hush.
And don't you realize the burden of proof is on our court to prove that there were no victims?
And the real question is why is it so upsetting for you that there could have been victims? And don't you realize that even if there was a handful of real victims, that would be the only thing that people would need to point to to ruin the whole theory?
Why start with that extreme a position? Isn't falsifying the number of deaths by 20 fold worse enough? Isn't bringing down those towers bad enough? You think these people would be nice enough to not take away any lives on 9/11?
Why do you think TPTB are that nice that they would warn everybody in advance? If anything it would be just like those cruel maniacal people to at least insure SOME loss of life, but just to inflate the death toll to make sure we go through with their foreign and domestic policy
Yeah they may warn a few of their henchman like Rudolph "9/11" Guliani especially to use him as a political weapon, but they hardly care about the rest of the civilians that would just be pawns and collateral damage in their eyes.
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hoi.polloi
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Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Now you get it.ATTC wrote:Yeah I'm pretty sure no one dies in a controlled demolition because people KNOW it's a controlled demolition and no one is even let anywhere near the building.
Easily. Send away as many people as possible and if a person approaches the building, send them away.How can you compare a demolition job that everyone knows is a demo job so far in advance that they even bring their cameras to watch, and what happened on 9/11?
Obviously, having people on the street wasn't an issue for them since you are convinced of the counterfeit video evidence.Speaking of which, why in the world would they want to evacuate the building so all the people who go outside can clearly SEE the explosion and no plane? They probably wanted as few people on the street as possible.
Absolutely wrong and if you call you and I "we" again I will grow intolerably and immaturely angry at you - whoever you are. I don't know you and if you think someone died, prove it.And don't you realize the burden of proof is on our court to prove that there were no victims?
I would love if you actually proved a single death. Not because someone died but because then we would know something and we could work to rectify the injustice. That is not what you apparently want to do.And the real question is why is it so upsetting for you that there could have been victims?
Why do you perps keep saying shit like that? It's not true. If someone died, it wouldn't do anything to our research because our research is solid. Proof of a real victim would actually add to our research. You - apparently - are not interested in that.And don't you realize that even if there was a handful of real victims, that would be the only thing that people would need to point to to ruin the whole theory?
Why start with that extreme a position?
lol - now you are being crazy. I am extreme for not believing in counterfeit images?
Why complicate matters? Who are you saying is dead?Isn't falsifying the number of deaths by 20 fold worse enough?
Alright just tell us who you work for. Your charade is over.Isn't bringing down those towers bad enough?
For goodness sakes' who knows? Why don't you just explain to everyone who you think is dead.You think these people would be nice enough to not take away any lives on 9/11?
What is TPTB and who is "everybody"? If I am going to shovel my walkway because it's covered in snow, do I have to alert everyone in advance?Why do you think TPTB are that nice that they would warn everybody in advance?
Who died, man? You haven't answered that yet.If anything it would be just like those cruel maniacal people to at least insure SOME loss of life, but just to inflate the death toll to make sure we go through with their foreign and domestic policy
Nice story. You seem pretty close to their mentality if you understand all that. In that case, who would you kill? Tell us the names of the people you would murder and then cover up with counterfeit imagery; and tell us why you would murder them.Yeah they may warn a few of their henchman like Rudolph "9/11" Guliani especially to use him as a political weapon, but they hardly care about the rest of the civilians that would just be pawns and collateral damage in their eyes.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
You think 9/11 was done just for giggles? There are people who had political and monetary gain who see human beings as nothing but mere pawns on a chess board? What's with your insistence that these individuals would be so benevolent that they would be concerned with harming a single human life?
After all, actual THOUSANDS would die as a result in subsequent wars as a result of their lies.
After all, actual THOUSANDS would die as a result in subsequent wars as a result of their lies.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
How dare you say that? No one here has EVER come remotely close to saying there is no possible way anyone died on 9/11. What we theorize is that there is no credible proof as of this time that any real person (who can be proved to have existed before 9/11) died that day as a result of whatever happened.ATTC wrote:it's pretty ridiculous to say that there is no possible way ANYONE died from that.
We require all new members to understand the septemberclues video, AND the Vicsim Report, before they start posting. There are 1000s of websites that welcome discussion of 9/11 planes, hijackers, Muslims, and victims. This forum isn't one of them - in fact, it is the ONLY website discussing all these faked 9/11 'facts'. You need to go elsewhere if you want to post about victims, unless you can provide objective evidence likely to convince the neutral reader.
Don't ever again put made-up words into our mouths, assume that's what we think, and then negate/laugh at that fabricated position that we don't hold.
EDIT - And stop talking about financial firm tenants of the WTC, unless you provide credible evidence of their presence, along with 100s of their employees, that day.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
No one is here to offend. Perhaps that statement I made was offensive, but it's equally offensive to call me a shill or a perp. I wouldn't sell my soul and certainly couldn't sleep at night if I did.fbenario wrote:How dare you say that? No one here has EVER come remotely close to saying there is no possible way anyone died on 9/11. What we theorize is that there is no credible proof as of this time that any real person (who can be proved to have existed before 9/11) died that day as a result of whatever happened.ATTC wrote:it's pretty ridiculous to say that there is no possible way ANYONE died from that.
We require all new members to understand the septemberclues video, AND the Vicsim Report, before they start posting. There are 1000s of websites that welcome discussion of 9/11 planes, hijackers, Muslims, and victims. This forum isn't one of them - in fact, it is the ONLY website discussing all these faked 9/11 'facts'. You need to go elsewhere if you want to post about victims, unless you can provide objective evidence likely to convince the neutral reader.
Don't ever again put made-up words into our mouths, assume that's what we think, and then negate/laugh at that fabricated position that we don't hold.
EDIT - And stop talking about financial firm tenants of the WTC, unless you provide credible evidence of their presence, along with 100s of their employees, that day.
I'm not here trying to stir the pot or try to be an Official Story Hugger. I'm just trying to open people's minds to the possibility that maybe there were at least some victims. And you guys are helping me open my mind to the possibility that there were none.
I understand the Vicsim report and it's really well done and it's rather obvious after it's pointed out to you. Kind of like everything about 9/11 when you look back at it for those of us who weren't awake about TPTB back then. You look back at it and say, man how in the world did I EVER think that building came down because of jet fuel fires. And you feel foolish.
Well if I was so fooled on that, then I agree perhaps I was fooled about any victims as well. It's not the Vicsim report that I doubt. It's just theoretically how an ENTIRE two 1/4 mile high buildings could be 100% evacuated before whatever brought down those towers or created that initial shaped charges, or whatever happened, how does that happen?
And more importantly WHY would that happen? If people aren't in those buildings on 9/11 that means that REAL PEOPLE would be survivors. REAL PEOPLE who could spill the beans that they were evacuated out the buildings before those explosions.
Not saying that didn't happen. Anything could have happened. Just trying to get people to see, that perhaps TPTB aren't nice enough to make sure there are no deaths during 9/11.
Obviously these psychopaths dont care too much about human life. Just look at all the false wars we go into.
But you're right I have no proof that anyone lived. And there is no official list of tenants outside of WIkipedia which is not exactly reliable.
The only thing we know about for sure is that there was insider trading. Can we at least agree to that? Even though obviously the people who promote insider trading are along the lines of LIHOP, or Blame BushCo MIHOP, point is that was another level of fraud going on that day. That's why I can't rule out insurance fraud.
But maybe if I make a FOIA request, or if someone shows me how to do that I can make one to see who the tenants were at WTC. Where in teh heck would we get that? NY/NJ Port Authority?
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
Well, here's why they could evacuate everybody without too much fuss: the building had been bombed in 1993 already, and they had a bunch of elaborate security and evacuation plans in place ever since that event for any future terrorist attacks. So all you have to say is "bomb threat" or "explosion" or "fire" or "imminent danger" and people leave in a hurry. I mean, really, do you want be stuck on the 90th floor when there's some chance that there's a real fire?
Since everybody is watching fake video, the "real" fireball for the live witnesses doesn't have to be all that spectacular. I'm sure a standard movie-set pyrotechnic kit would produce a big and impressive but harmless fireball that would attract plenty of attention. Coupled with some well-placed smoke generators, and a loud noise, and you would have everybody eager to leave in an orderly fashion.
They had a couple of hours to chase everybody out of the building who wasn't part of the plan, and I'm sure that the participating companies arranged for their employees to be somewhere else, anyway. Certainly all of the CEO's and VIP's had ready-made excuses (Cantor CEO's daughter's first day of Kindergarten, Marvin Bush called away somewhere else, etc).
From what I understand all of the elevators were working just fine and people did not have to walk down any staircases except in made-for-TV newspaper stories.
I would say that it sure looks like Marsh and Cantor Fitzgerald were major, willing participants in the 9/11 hoax, as were various CNN / Network / Fake News TV producers such as Theresa and Jack Renaud (just my opinion).
At Cantor, the whole made-up E-Speed division was killed off after everybody had already been laid off. The only people left on the payroll were vicsims.
In a building with 100 floors, there are only a few that any one person has any reason to visit. I myself had been to a meeting at Goldman Sachs not too long before 9/11. I vaguely recall one lady I talked to there saying that their offices were getting relocated (I think GS had already announced plans to move people to Jersey City.) There's no way that any normal person conducting legitimate business is going to know about any weird goings-on up on the 97th floor. You go in, sign in with security, get your badge, and get off on the floor where you have business. It's not like people are aimlessly wandering around the skyscraper.
With Cantor and Marsh being "in on the plan", they probably sub-let their unused floors to the perps in exchange for who knows what favors. Probably only the CEO and a couple of key people know what they had going on on the empty floors that were to be the "landing zone" for the fake planes.
I suppose you could have some "collateral damage" from people having heart attacks from hearing that the building had been blown up, or some strange people deciding to go hide under their desks instead of evacuating, but most people probably just left on the elevators when they were told "hey, the building's on fire, get out!" Whenever I've been in a skyscraper when that's happened I leave and ask people "is this for real or a drill or what.".
On 9/11 I'm sure most of the "not in the know" people were quoting from the news reports "small plane crash or bomb..." I suspect the "messages telling people to return to their desks" is just pure perp disinfo to feed the official incompetence OCT story line. Certainly I've never seen any confessions from the guilt-ridden security guard who made the idiot call of telling people "all clear, return to your desks." So I think it's pure bullshit.
Having worked in a few tall buildings, I can tell you that it's totally normal to walk in and have some security guard tell you that the elevator to Floor 33 is broken and to do something different. I'd guess the perp-controlled security staff was severely restricting the flow of foot-traffic into the WTC towers on some pretext or another. Probably the occupancy rate was very low as most of the tenants were given reasons to relocate before 9/11. It wouldn't surprise me if all of the Goldman people on the floor where I had the meeting had been moved to new offices before 9/11 (since I was told they were just about to move.)
The perps had years to plan for 9/11/2001, so they could have made sure that most of the leases had already expired. With a handful of people at the tops of each major firm, they could also make sure that any real employees had business to conduct somewhere else--"offsite training", etc.
My guess is that if you did show up randomly at one of the WTC buildings at 8 in the morning on 9/11/2001 there were nice people with velvet ropes telling you that you had to come back later because (repair, re-painting, radon gas, window washing, restaurant is closed, electrical malfunction, doors don't open until 9 am, Halloween Decorations, filming a TV commercial, Naudet Bros Talent Show, Mark Humphrey interview...) You get the idea.
Besides, since all of the firms were presumably moving somewhere else (obviously nobody was going to be working in the WTC on 9/12) I doubt anybody had any reason to schedule any meetings in the WTC on 9/11 at all. I didn't have any meetings scheduled there, did you?
I didn't hear anything about rents going up or their being any shortage of office space after 9/11, either. NYC was a ghost town. Miraculously none of the companies seemed to go out of business or lose any key customers, either. Cantor Fitzgerald seems to be the same as it ever was. I didn't hear about anybody switching to the competition because their key Marsh or Cantor contacts had been killed in a kamikaze attack.
The only guy I know who had a meeting in Windows on the World on 9/11 is a "retired" spook. So go figure.
Since everybody is watching fake video, the "real" fireball for the live witnesses doesn't have to be all that spectacular. I'm sure a standard movie-set pyrotechnic kit would produce a big and impressive but harmless fireball that would attract plenty of attention. Coupled with some well-placed smoke generators, and a loud noise, and you would have everybody eager to leave in an orderly fashion.
They had a couple of hours to chase everybody out of the building who wasn't part of the plan, and I'm sure that the participating companies arranged for their employees to be somewhere else, anyway. Certainly all of the CEO's and VIP's had ready-made excuses (Cantor CEO's daughter's first day of Kindergarten, Marvin Bush called away somewhere else, etc).
From what I understand all of the elevators were working just fine and people did not have to walk down any staircases except in made-for-TV newspaper stories.
I would say that it sure looks like Marsh and Cantor Fitzgerald were major, willing participants in the 9/11 hoax, as were various CNN / Network / Fake News TV producers such as Theresa and Jack Renaud (just my opinion).
At Cantor, the whole made-up E-Speed division was killed off after everybody had already been laid off. The only people left on the payroll were vicsims.
In a building with 100 floors, there are only a few that any one person has any reason to visit. I myself had been to a meeting at Goldman Sachs not too long before 9/11. I vaguely recall one lady I talked to there saying that their offices were getting relocated (I think GS had already announced plans to move people to Jersey City.) There's no way that any normal person conducting legitimate business is going to know about any weird goings-on up on the 97th floor. You go in, sign in with security, get your badge, and get off on the floor where you have business. It's not like people are aimlessly wandering around the skyscraper.
With Cantor and Marsh being "in on the plan", they probably sub-let their unused floors to the perps in exchange for who knows what favors. Probably only the CEO and a couple of key people know what they had going on on the empty floors that were to be the "landing zone" for the fake planes.
I suppose you could have some "collateral damage" from people having heart attacks from hearing that the building had been blown up, or some strange people deciding to go hide under their desks instead of evacuating, but most people probably just left on the elevators when they were told "hey, the building's on fire, get out!" Whenever I've been in a skyscraper when that's happened I leave and ask people "is this for real or a drill or what.".
On 9/11 I'm sure most of the "not in the know" people were quoting from the news reports "small plane crash or bomb..." I suspect the "messages telling people to return to their desks" is just pure perp disinfo to feed the official incompetence OCT story line. Certainly I've never seen any confessions from the guilt-ridden security guard who made the idiot call of telling people "all clear, return to your desks." So I think it's pure bullshit.
Having worked in a few tall buildings, I can tell you that it's totally normal to walk in and have some security guard tell you that the elevator to Floor 33 is broken and to do something different. I'd guess the perp-controlled security staff was severely restricting the flow of foot-traffic into the WTC towers on some pretext or another. Probably the occupancy rate was very low as most of the tenants were given reasons to relocate before 9/11. It wouldn't surprise me if all of the Goldman people on the floor where I had the meeting had been moved to new offices before 9/11 (since I was told they were just about to move.)
The perps had years to plan for 9/11/2001, so they could have made sure that most of the leases had already expired. With a handful of people at the tops of each major firm, they could also make sure that any real employees had business to conduct somewhere else--"offsite training", etc.
My guess is that if you did show up randomly at one of the WTC buildings at 8 in the morning on 9/11/2001 there were nice people with velvet ropes telling you that you had to come back later because (repair, re-painting, radon gas, window washing, restaurant is closed, electrical malfunction, doors don't open until 9 am, Halloween Decorations, filming a TV commercial, Naudet Bros Talent Show, Mark Humphrey interview...) You get the idea.
Besides, since all of the firms were presumably moving somewhere else (obviously nobody was going to be working in the WTC on 9/12) I doubt anybody had any reason to schedule any meetings in the WTC on 9/11 at all. I didn't have any meetings scheduled there, did you?
I didn't hear anything about rents going up or their being any shortage of office space after 9/11, either. NYC was a ghost town. Miraculously none of the companies seemed to go out of business or lose any key customers, either. Cantor Fitzgerald seems to be the same as it ever was. I didn't hear about anybody switching to the competition because their key Marsh or Cantor contacts had been killed in a kamikaze attack.
The only guy I know who had a meeting in Windows on the World on 9/11 is a "retired" spook. So go figure.
Re: Victims Comp Fund Only Has 59 People Who Are Listed In S
I agree. The show 'live on TV' started by interrupting normal morning TV programs and the movie was started running; We could see WTC1 on fire 'live on TV' filmed by some helicopter. Just a movie with a bad animation, of course. Smoke may have been added to the real WTC1 but from then on downtown NY was closed off, evacuated, nobody watched TV there and compared to the real thing, and so on. Few real witnesses to worry about.fred wrote:I would say that it sure looks like Marsh and Cantor Fitzgerald were major, willing participants in the 9/11 hoax, as were various CNN / Network / Fake News TV producers such as Theresa and Jack Renaud (just my opinion).
If there was anybody in WTC 1&2 there at the time, there were plenty of time to evacuate them. NYFD just watched on.
A little later the movie, still 'live on TV' with stupid comments of commentators watching the movie, showed an animate plane hitting WTC2 from south and maybe another smoke bomb was set off in the real WTC2. Who cares? 99.99% of all witnesses just watched the movie 'live on TV' and believed it. The movie rolled on. Downtown NY was evacuated. And suddenly WTC2 was seen collapsing 'live on TV' from top down - plenty of smoke and dust pushed out, top twisting, etc. What a lousy animation. But it only lasted 10-15 seconds ... and the TV watchers believed it as reality. In reality WTC2 was just destroyed from bottom up using conventional controlled demolition techniques producing the same result. But it could not be shown, of course. It would be too obvious. But the real thing was evidently filmed. Good to have such a film to blackmail the perps. Same for WTC1 a little later. The movie, 'live on TV', shows - from all angles (helicopters, amateurs filming, etc) - top dropping down producing a fountain of smoke, dust and debris shooting out in all directions. As an 'Independence Day' animation of the destruction of the White House and Capitolium it was not too bad but still not very convincing. It cannot happen in real life.
Reason being that no skyscraper can collapse from top down into a black hole in the cellar. Actually, no real structure of any kind can destroy itself in such a way; becoming nothing at ground as if sucked down by a black hole in the cellar. Gravity provides too little energy in a structure so the structure can never destroy itself from the top.
This is one major weakness of the 9-11 conspiracy; to cover up the destructions of WTC1&2 by conventional means (from bottom up) showing a fake movie 'live on TV' at the same time. http://heiwaco.tripod.com/tower.htm
It seems one reason to blew up WTC was to start a US war of aggression in Afghanistan. Good news is that US is losing it - fast. I would not be surprised if US & NATO & ISAF are out of Afghanistan during 2011. Bad news is the perps will start another attack. It can happen anywhere. Stockholm yesterday seems a small example.
Last edited by Heiwa on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.