Egypt 'Revolution'- all the way to Libya 'War'

[hoi.polloi]

It starts to look like an EastAsianNews scene where they drive a bus of people into a park reserve to do some photoshoots and then bring them all home.

Afterwards it's Free Jell-o shots all around after the shoot guys, thanks for shooting for our shitty shots! Let's go to the pub and take off this ridiculous wardrobe!

Actually egghead's jacket is kind of nice in a Eurotrash discotheque sort of way, where can I get me one of those, except without the vague lettering on the sleeve?

[nonhocapito]

What seems strange to me is that 9/11, Bali, 7/7... up to flight 1549, domodemovo or Alexandria are limited events, that last for a very brief moment in time, and produce a very limited quantity of images: the quantity is actually limited by design, in such a weird way it is already a sign of fakery right there. 9/11 took years to produce so much more imagery, exactly because it is so tedious and long to create composite / 3d worlds.

Egypt, Libya and all the other muslim countries involved in this big "orange revolution" (=globalist putsch) instead, seem to be producing a continuous flow of imagery, photos, videos and so forth: if they were all produced in cgi with "sims" and fake scenery and so forth, wouldn't they require years of work and large, big-budget teams? I had the impression that the production of fakery could not, by definition, be a really large operation, which was why we could pick on the many, continuous errors in the production of the many faked events.

Sorry if i sound like a broken record too, but the more imagery I see of these "muslim orange revolutions", the more I tend to believe that the source is by and large reality: of course reality can be: staged with actors, altered/composed in photoshop, with totally misleading captions etc. But still basically belonging to the realm of reality versus computer-generated worlds, since of course to take over these countries actual action is required, and once you have actual action you have an endless source of real images from which to pick the ones that are more apt to sell the fake story you wanna sing to the west.

[fbenario]

On no. 2: if the new official rebel government asks for intervention against the evil dictator to save the people, will the West be so cruel to deny them a helping invasion?

Since the US goal is to control the oil in Eastern Libya, the answer to your question is likely to be "Yes, of course we will protect you, rebel government. Doesn't a mother usually protect the offspring to whom she gave birth?"

[warriorhun]

Dear nonhocapito,

you say:

Egypt, Libya and all the other muslim countries involved in this big "orange revolution" (=globalist putsch) instead, seem to be producing a continuous flow of imagery, photos, videos and so forth: if they were all produced in cgi with "sims" and fake scenery and so forth, wouldn't they require years of work and large, big-budget teams? I had the impression that the production of fakery could not, by definition, be a really large operation...
Sorry if i sound like a broken record too, but the more imagery I see of these "muslim orange revolutions", the more I tend to believe that the source is by and large reality: of course reality can be: staged with actors, altered/composed in photoshop, with totally misleading captions etc. But still basically belonging to the realm of reality versus computer-generated worlds, since of course to take over these countries actual action is required, and once you have actual action you have an endless source of real images from which to pick the ones that are more apt to sell the fake story you wanna sing to the west.

Okay, let me jump on my favourite horse: "Crescent of Democracy"-plan theory, which you call orange revolution=globalist putsch, so we are talking about the same thing. I claim since 2003 when iraqi democracy turned out not exportable, they had exactly 8 years to prepare the new plan. Surely the planning and creation of fakery did not start in 2010 december? Surely the success of 9/11 fakery resulted in lots of big budget teams working on fakery non-stop? That all money spent on "cyber defence" goes to the internet and media disinfo, psywar, and fakery projects?
No, I like your broken record. What would be the point to agree to things you see differently? The whole point is the discussion. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, both may be wrong. But discussing things logically will give results.
Of course actual action is required on the ground. The action on the ground makes the fakery credible. But do not tell me that staged actors, photoshop is REALITY, in any more sense than THEY PHISICALLY EXIST somewhere on the Earth: that does not make them Libyan reality. Just because not everything is CGI-I claim not everything is CGI-that does not mean they are using images taken on the ground in Libya. All fakery is a much easier and rewarding project. Lots of problems with taking real images on the ground in Libya, lots of problems using them. Why not fake all if you achieve EXACTLY THE SAME PROPAGANDA RESULT without risk, the same result they would achieve with real images, but without on the ground work? An altered real image and a totally fake image causes the same propaganda impact: which one would you choose: fuck about in Libya, in gunfire with your wide angle photoapparat, or would you stay in your nice, heated NYC office, creating fake imagery with a computer program? For me it would be a real no-brainer decision. I bet it is the same for the reporters, too.

[fbenario]

Just because not everything is CGI-I claim not everything is CGI-that does not mean they are using images taken on the ground in Libya. All fakery is a much easier and rewarding project. Lots of problems with taking real images on the ground in Libya, lots of problems using them. Why not fake all if you achieve EXACTLY THE SAME PROPAGANDA RESULT without risk, the same result they would achieve with real images, but without on the ground work? An altered real image and a totally fake image causes the same propaganda impact: which one would you choose: fuck about in Libya, in gunfire with your wide angle photoapparat, or would you stay in your nice, heated NYC office, creating fake imagery with a computer program? For me it would be a real no-brainer decision. I bet it is the same for the reporters, too.

I agree with you on all points, Warriorhun.

Just to clarify for everyone. I do not, in ALL cases, believe that if one image is fake, then necessarily all images are fake (which makes nonhocapito right in SOME cases) - although it certainly appears that ALL 9/11/moon/nuke images are fake.

What I believe (as I think Warriorhun and others do) is that, if one image/video is fake, then the 'event' did not happen as reported in the mainstream, controlled media. In this case, the 'event' is a spontaneous uprising of the Libyan people against their government, initiated/continued without ANY foreign influence/direction/control.

Quoting myself from 3 days on this thread

Are you sure about that? Those of us who think Wikileaks is:

(a) a CIA-front organization, and

(b) all the document dumps are an attempt by the US to manipulate the perceptions of the entire world all at once,

could easily conclude (as I posted here somewhat recently), that the US might have decided they wanted a new set of controlled governments (replacing the old crop of dictators) in these countries, and while they're at it, go ahead and
insert more US troops in strategic places.

That is why the coming US 'humanitarian intervention' in Libya will put troops in Eastern Libya, where they can control the oil fields. I think the US planned all of everything that is going on, and it is taking place exactly as the US intended.

(If the US isn't in full control, then why hasn't Mubarek been hung upside down by the Egyptian populace, like Mussolini and Ceaucescu? He's obviously under full US protection, and there is not likely to be any PROVABLE great mass civilian protest movement in existence in Egypt.)

[nonhocapito]

... which makes nonhocapito right in SOME cases.

Thanks, too good. I just want to remind myself, since this is becoming a bit surreal, that until a few posts ago warriorhun was saying that everything was fake, and implied a cgi construction and sim people for all the pictures he ran into no matter the quality. It is only because of my objections that now his position may be a bit different, and the same goes about the presence of reporters in Libya, or the fact that not everything that we hear from there necessarily belongs to a script. Mind you this is normal, I change my mind all the time. Just pointing out that all I have done was questioning the "automatic pilot" we sometimes use on this forum assuming everything is fake. I never even said I was sure of the opposite. Just pointing out why there is good reason to "slow down". We are not in a race against the news, we can use another pace. But hey that's me. I need slow.

[warriorhun]

Dear fbenario,

you say:

if one image/video is fake, then the 'event' did not happen as reported in the mainstream, controlled media. In this case, the 'event' is a spontaneous uprising of the Libyan people against their government, initiated/continued without ANY foreign influence/direction/control.

That is EXACTLY what I am on about.


Dear nonhocapito,

you say:

until a few posts ago warriorhun was saying that everything was fake, and implied a cgi construction and sim people for all the pictures he ran into no matter the quality. It is only because of my objections that now his position may be a bit different

Yep, I changed my mind, based on your comments on reporters in Tripoli Hilton and on wide angle, and on simonshack's comment about staged scenes with actors. We have to figure out everything on the go, and why would I be right in everything automatically, no? I do not use witchcraft... So, the clashing of opinions helped us to move forward, yes?

[nonhocapito]

So, the clashing of opinions helped us to move forward, yes?

That's what I'm saying. Hey, here're more pictures for your pleasure: http://cryptome.org/info/libya-fight/libya-fight-02.htm
I am sure you will find plenty of fake there. Including more plateless cars... (plateless ambulances too)

About that,in case anyone was wondering (and to give warriorhun a laugh since he said I was obsessed with car plates): Libyan cars do have plates in front. I looked into my Tripoli picture folder, there isn't much there, but I did find this picture, showing one of the entrances to the beautiful old city of Tarabulus/Tripoli:



compare to cryptome vehicles:



...on the other hand, if something like self-organized guerrilla existed, using private vehicles of the guerrilleros, it would make some sense to remove the plates, I suppose. But from ambulances too? unlikely.

[brianv]

RT "Libya air attack footage looks fake"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4 ... ideo_title

@6:00

[warriorhun]

Dear brianv,

you say:

RT "Libya air attack footage looks fake"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4 ... ideo_title
@6:00

Excellent finding! Just as I was able to figure out the Libyan bombing videos are faked based on my little military basic training received as a honvéd during my national service, so can everyone.
The Russians are clever, they can figure. I bet they knew the score at the evening of 9/11, too.
And I am sure the Iranians and the Syrians are paying close attention, because next time their skin comes...

[nonhocapito]

Dear brianv,

you say:

RT "Libya air attack footage looks fake"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4 ... ideo_title
@6:00

Excellent finding! Just as I was able to figure out the Libyan bombing videos are faked based on my little military basic training received as a honvéd during my national service, so can everyone.
The Russians are clever, they can figure. I bet they knew the score at the evening of 9/11, too.
And I am sure the Iranians and the Syrians are paying close attention, because next time their skin comes...

Yes it is a great interview. It is always surprising to hear authorities use the word "fake". And it confirms that military backing from foreign forces is the obvious condition you need to make things actually difficult for Gaddafi on the ground, and that's the only reason not only for this "insurgency" not being over yet, but for having it started in the first place.

That said, I don't think it's about the Russians being "clever" or the French or the Americans are being stupid.

It is about different interests. Russians are not speaking out about something being fake because they want the truth of fakery to come out, as if they had "figured it out". They will disappoint if we expect them to do that.

They simply are opposed to this particular operation against Libya because it probably goes to damage their interests, either because it diminishes EU dependence on their reserves, or because they are going to be left out of the cut on Gaddafi's oil. So they play the good cop. But in the long run it's hypocrisy, as they will keep using fakery at home or elsewhere whenever they need to.

[warriorhun]

Dear nonhocapito and All,

Here is a beautifully fake video of Libyan air strike from a Greek reporter team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7q9Ozq0 ... detailpage

How to behave during air strike, reporter's course:
1. Stay stationary on the road, next to your vehicle. The MIGs bomb the desert only,so don't look for cover..
2. But when the bomb explodes next to the road, go as close as you can so you may take the best picuters of the shrapnels zooming at you. As you are on the rebels' side, Allah will magically save your skin.
3. When the air strike is over, run to your car like your life depended on it.

Ps: I did not implicate that for example the French are dumb. AFP is French, they are doing part of the fakery.
And it occurred to me that the Russian Media are not the knights in shining armour who will help us in our research: do I think it remotely possible that sometimes, just sometimes, perhaps the Russian Media uses CGI images and media fakery, too?

UPDATE:
Watch the video brianv found: RT "Libya air attack footage looks fake " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilHsmea4 ... ideo_title carefully between 1:16 and 1:18. The man in green fatigue is carrying a dummy! It is not a dead body, nor a living casualty. A plastic dummy!

[fbenario]

Background on 'Libyan' history.

"‘Libya’ Does Not Exist

It was a fake country from the beginning

The idea that there is a nation called “Libya” is the central problem with our understanding of what is going on in that fake “country,” the flaw in our projections of what will or ought to happen.

The country known today as Libya has only existed since the end of World War II, and was the product of a shotgun marriage of the three “provinces”: Tripolitania, in the West, Cyrenaica, in the East, and Fezzan in the South. “Libya” was created, first, by the Italians in 1933, who sought to incorporate the three distinct areas into a unified colony, under a single Fascist proconsul. After the defeat of the Axis powers, the British took control and installed an “emir” in Cyrenaica.
...
The Benghazi rebellion is essentially a secessionist movement, which seeks to break Cyrenaica away from what used to be the entirely separate and distinct state of Tripolitania – now the seat of the central government and Gadhafi’s chief stronghold. Cyrenaica has a long history as an independent and quasi-independent entity, which goes back to the time of the ancient Greeks, and continued into modern times. That history is now reasserting itself. Cyrenaica was the center of resistance to the Italians. It is also the center of the Sanussi sect’s influence – a version of Islam, founded in 1837. The Sanussi, based in the Bedouin tribes of the East, have always been the most troublesome for would-be colonizers and empire-builders: they resisted the rule of the Italians just as they fought the Ottomans – and are now fighting Gadhafi.

King Idris I, who took the throne after World War II, descended from the original Sanussi emir – and, it turns out, he was right in his reluctance to extend his rule to Tripoli. If the Western powers, hiding behind the UN, had taken the King’s advice and allowed Cyrenaica to go its own way, the present tragedy might have been averted. As it is, the rebellion against Gadhafi has turned into a stalemate, with the Eastern part effectively liberated from the eccentric despot’s control.

This is no doubt unacceptable to the Western powers, which want a single state to deal with and exploit, and it is doubly unacceptable to the Arab League, because it opens up a whole new can of worms, throwing into question the borders of states created in the wake of the Ottoman collapse. If Cyrenaica can secede from Tripoli, then why can’t the Kurds secede from Iraq – and the Shi’ites of the Saudi Kingdom’s Eastern province rid themselves of their Sunni overlords?

In any case, the fiction of “Libya” is falling by the wayside. What will succeed it remains an open question. However, Western intervention, if and when it occurs, cannot bring stability to a “nation” that never really existed in the first place.

The great Arab Awakening now sweeping North Africa and the Middle East is not only bringing down the old order of Western-supported dynasties, and tinpot dictators of Gadhafi’s ilk – it is also erasing arbitrary borders drawn by Western colonizers and Ottoman caliphs, and redrawing them to reflect underlying realities more accurately. Any attempt by the West to intervene, and favor one outcome over another, is bound to draw the ire of indigenous peoples – and redirect their anger away from local despots, and towards us."

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011 ... not-exist/

[fbenario]

The US-Israel plan to break-up the Middle East into smaller parts that are more easily controlled.

In regards to Israel, Tel Aviv sees instability and chaos in the Arab World as serving its interests. Israel is not cutting itself off from the events in Arabdom. The Israeli strategy, in seamless alignment with both the U.S. and the older British strategies in the Middle East-North Africa (MENA) region, has always been to weaken and divide the Arab states. Israel has supported balkanization in the MENA region wherever it can. The Yinon Plan is very much alive today in what can henceforth be called the “Yinon Approach.” The strategy is named after Oded Yinon, a Israeli foreign policy analyst who outlined the “Zionist strategy” for breaking up and balkanizing the Arab World. [1]

The plan operates on two essential premises. To survive, Israel must (1) become an imperial regional power, and (2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states. Small here will depend on the ethnic or sectarian composition of each state. Consequently, the Zionist hope is that sectarian-based states become Israeli satellites and, ironically, its source of moral legitimation.
...
This first map was prepared by Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters. It was published in the Armed Forces Journal in June 2006, Peters is a retired colonel of the U.S. National War Academy. (Map Copyright Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters 2006). Although the map does not officially reflect Pentagon doctrine, it has been used in a training program at NATO's Defense College for senior military officers. This map, as well as other similar maps, has most probably been used at the National War Academy as well as in military planning circles. (I don't understand why the image of this first map isn't showing. It is far more interesting than the second one below, so please take a look at it.)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePic ... 20East.jpg

This second map was drawn by Holly Lindem for an article by Jeffery Goldberg. It was published in The Atlantic in January/February 2008. (Map Copyright: The Atlantic, 2008). (This map is less readable, and less interesting, than the first one.)

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23542

[warriorhun]

Dear All,

In the face of Japan's new "nuclear holocaust" at Fuck-you-sama 1 and 2, it is perhaps not polite to concentrate on the less significant events like the total destabilization of the Middle East.
I just wanted to give you an up-date on the "Crescent of Democracy"-plan which is rolling out in Libya quite healthily thank you very much.
So, what is the "Crescent of Democracy"-plan MO in Libya?

Gaddhafi was in cahoots with the West and the War on Terror since 9/11, because the old fox realised that as an "Axis of Evil", he has the life expectancy of ol' Saddam Hussein (who died beautifully like a man as Gary Brecher aka. War Nerd said, and I agree). So he even let the US to use his prisons for a little torture on captured islamist insurgents. He even gave out the supposed Lockerbie bomber, whom the Brits returned when he complained that he did not feel very well, and feels claustrofobic in enclosed space or whatever. But the West saw Gaddhafi as an easy target to take out for moral-boosting as they plan to take out Iran, and they needed an international precedent to use against Iran as the "Iran goes nuclear" scare does not work, and they dare not explode or fake a dirty nuclear bomb attack in USA to blame the Iranian Intelligence.

So, using the real and faked images of the "succesful peaceful "democratic" revolutions" in Tunisia and Egypt, and the same Social Media, (Facebook, etc...) provocations, they incited the Libyans to start protesting themselves. A few idealist university students probably took to the streets of Tripoli, so Gaddhafi ordered his police to ask the students if their homeworks are ready yet, and if the answer is no, slap them down and send them home after a good kicking. Peaceful demonstrations are over, but the alibi was created for MSM to claim there are demonstrations in Libya.

Now Libyan living standards are good, and inciting democratic revolution, especially an armed one in Libya would be like inciting the same in 1986 communist Hungary: the people would laugh in your face. So, what happened?

The War on Terror let the West to establish contacts with tribal enemies of Gaddhafi's tribe. Now, Gaddhafi is not some one-man absolute dictator with power based on Fuehrerprinzip, he is the leader of his tribe and governs through his tribe's people. I bet the second biggest tribe would be especially happy to take their place in power. They are not "pro-democracy", they want their tribe to win and the other tribes to loose. Of course they will call the result democracy, so the Western TV viewer will approve and shower them with kisses.

During the Egypt revolution, Sayeret Matkal or Sayeret Duvdevan Mistaravim units, SAS commandos, US Rangers and the like started infiltrating through the borders. Their task was to supply arms and weapons and basic training to the anti-Gaddhafi tribes' warriors, plus run reconnaisance missions for the future invasion. If captured like the SAS folks, they claim on MSM they were there to "evacuate civils and diplomats", and I believe Gaddhafi's military CI personnel believed every word they uttered.

Meanwhile, Gaddhafi did not allow reporters to go to the tribal areas, he wanted them to stay in Tripoli Hilton, and move around with official Libyan guides if they absolutely must. If someone violates this, will be kicked out of the country after a good slapping, like the BBC crew. No reporters want to risk their hides, and the rebelling tribal warriors would not let their photos taken, because then their families would be in risk, Mistaravim ditto, and Libyan military CI could analyse the pictures to gain decisive info on the rebels. So MSM must rely on total Media fakery, both news and images.

They start up with fake news and images about "massacres of civils committed by Libyan army" and "Gaddhafi might use WMDs on the people" old iraq war BS, to warm up the Western TV viewers to the idea of invasion, to get them approve the killing lots of Libyans by NATO in order to save them. I am still waiting for an answer how can you convince your officer corps, who swore to defend their own folks even if the price they have to pay is death, to shoot on the same own folks. Or kill their comrades with whom they took on the boots, and shared their meals and cigarettes with, just because they feel shooting on their own folks is a morally dubious order. If you know tell me, so if I get lucky and become an evil dictator I should know.

So, they do no such thing: they are shooting on the rebels because their intel knows they are israeli and western foreign infiltrators, and Libyan traitors. Officers from the anti-Gaddhafi tribe defect to the rebels. The battle pictures and videos are all faked. The actions and behaviour of the rebels on the battle and air strike videos defies simple peasant common sense and basic military logic: these are either CGI imagery, or staged events with actors taken in some other desert: Negev or Arizona jumps into my mind at first.

This war is brought to you by Toyota: the rebels and Mistaravim have light weaponry only and zoom around in Toyota pickups with machineguns on the flatbed, such vehicle is called a Technical: they are extremely open to air strikes and tank attacks. Air strikes are happening all right: they are just not the faked ones you see on youtube and MSM. They are prone to loose, unless somehow Libyan air force stays on the ground. So a no-fly-zone is proposed by UN or whoever.

The West accepts the rebels as new government, like the Soviets accepted Kádár's Worker-Peasant Revolutionary Government in Hungary 1956, and just like Kádár asked the Soviets to invade Hungary, the Libyan traitors are begging the West to invade Libya.

This is where we are standing now, and if the West invades, that will create an international precedent, based on which, if they apply the same MO in Iran, they can invade Iran on the long run.

So, this is what happened and is happening in Libya now according to the "Crescent of Democracy"-plan.