Egypt 'Revolution'- all the way to Libya 'War'

[warriorhun]

Dear hoi.polloi,

But seriously, I always hear from people jews were persecuted, and nobody asks WHY were they persecuted. When they came to a country, were they persecuted soon as they arrived, or just a bit later? Did they do something? Why were they persecuted? Because they were good in business un-like the lazy locals who envied them, the prejudical racist bastards, or perhaps is there something else?

You bet. They came into Hungary in big numbers after 1867 when equal rights were given to all religions and there was no immigration policy, telling sob stories of Russian persecution. Hungarians said, well, stay if you wish. Started up business, usury, bought up the press.
They decided the 1000 years old Hungarian Kingdom is not good enough. Come WW1 (I leave out the German part of the story, but the Germans story with the jews did not start with Hitler who opened the Big book of nations, and trying to find enemies, incidentally pointed on letter J), Hungary got defeated, so they organized a "pro-democracy"-revolution, disbanded the army, which resulted in the loss of 2/3rd of the country and millions of ethnic Hungarians over the new borders. 1919, the Sovietrepublic started under Kun (Cohen) Béla, bolshevik red terror, massacres, all-jew Lenin-boys under jewsih Szamuely Tibor killing ethnic Hungarians. All communist ministers were jews except one stooge Hungarian to sign the death sentences during Sabbath. Then Admiral Horthy's national army came to power.
AND SO FAR, NOBODY TOUCHED A SINGLE HAIR ON THE HEAD OF ONE SINGLE JEW. But Hungarians kind of noticed that they may not be our best friends.
Come WW2, Germans came, started deporting jews after the occupation in 1944. The Hungarians were outraged of the occupation although the Germans were kameraden, and were outraged at the German pointing out people, who can live and who can die: they were our jews, the German did not know them, and who the fuck the Germans think they are anyways...But on the other hand, would you raise a hand in the defence of jews, who attacked and killed our people first in the past and fucked up our country, without reason? So, nobody batted an eyelid when they were herded to the cattle trains. And yep, the Arrowcross Party hungarists shot a few into the Danube River in 1944 but not just for the fucking badness of it, though I bet it was the time of their life, but because they helped the invading Soviet hordes, and were partisans and saboteurs...
But do not worry, soon as their survivors came back, they got even. They started up with Soviet backing another bolshevik system led by Rákosi (Rosenfeld) Mátyás and Gerő Ernő, and the new Purim Fiest started. Boy, did they bath in our blood, did our blood flow in rivers... It did my man, it did....

See, nothing is as easy as the official story says....

UPDATE: of course, this was the un-PC, evilly pro-Hungarian version. Officially our old Kingdom was a shit place, we are better off in a much smaller country with relatives oppressed over the border, forget it, it is just history, come on get a life! Communism at least modernised our country, but we are un-grateful bastards. And of course, the bolsheviks being all jews does mean a thing, the red terror could have been done by Eskimos just as easily. So all in all, we are primitive savages, fascist scum zu sammen. I am so ashamed.

[nonhocapito]

I think swapping the "extremist Muslim" enemy (which we see as a lie) for the Zionism enemy (which we see as a real group whose influence is everywhere) isn't a big advancement.

I think we are just trying to understand things, not "swapping" anything: not trying to make it easy. Certainly you were not "swapping" the muslims with Mitre or the Rothschilds when you figured the bucket stopped with certain corporations of the military-industrial complex or with masonic lodges...
I'm not even saying zionists are the enemy per se, only that what happens benefits them, follows their m.o.: that they seem to be in control of hollywood and the news channels (in a word, they control fakery: much more than any military corporation can), and that you couldn't have any big faked event like 9/11 happening without them being a willing part of the plan.
I know that all of this could be an even bigger layer of lies, to use jews or zionists as a scapegoat for even bigger schemes. This argument I accept because I have no element to tell otherwise. I cannot accept an argument that says that blaming zionists is too simple. It isn't any simpler than blaming "the british" "the corporations", but I found those lines to be taken quite seriously on this forum.

The liars' solution is "identify the enemy, then kill them" so our strategy should be somewhat different, such as "if we identify a perceived enemy, try to reach out and talk to them - make our opinions known and open up discussion and dialogue with them."
I know that seems crazy when you take into account the types of people apparently behind the fakery but I would remind everyone that whoever it is, they are just ordinary people.

So, if the zionists were not on the table, but Mitre or other corporations, would you try to "talk it out" with Mitre operatives? My guess is no, and you would be right because a corporation isn't human: it is an entity that outlives men, it makes no difference what the men in the corporation individually tell you. You don't talk with them, you talk with everyone else trying to exorcise the spell or cut the dependency people have with that particular entity. The same happens with ideological organizations that on top of it base their philosophy on supremacy or the idea that goym are cattle and slaves, to be used or fooled. (I wouldn't "talk" with Lenin, I would spit in his face and run.)
But OK, so we can talk with zionists. That's fine. Probably right now they are about to cheer for the bombing of Tripoli (or for its simulation), I don't what good that conversation would do...

Each is persecuted in a different way. It is better to identify specifics I think, which is what we are trying to do.

I don't understand what you mean here... Because I don't really think everyone is persecuted. That was a joke. I know I am not persecuted. I know americans are not persecuted. Maybe if i go to Tel-aviv and try to sit in front of a segregated bus or drive in a jewish-only freeway, I'd be persecuted. Otherwise, not so much.
Those who cannot rent an apartment, be regular citizens, live with their families, have their own places of congregation, are regularly strip-searched because of their passport, all because of unjust laws: those are persecuted.
So you think Jews are actually persecuted today? Forget the internet. Are jews persecuted in our society today??

[fbenario]

I have a slightly more "conspiracy theory" mind and so I am not so logical as you. I see how that might not be very useful for others that I share my skepticism all the time. I just wish to express it because this is a place and context for me to do so. I understand if the rest of the users on this site disagree with my agnosticism toward some obvious goal.

Please continue to share your skepticism at all posts that presume to identify the ultimately responsible group behind anything. I agree it serves no good purpose to draw final conclusions, most obviously because there is no authoritative evidence for such a conclusion. I think the 'perp pyramid' identifier is the best we can do, and no evidence exists that identifies the single perp controlling all others. Let's face it, these are power-hungry, bloodthirsty sociopaths (defined as those who care not for the Golden Rule, and lack all empathy for the suffering of others), and it's ludicrous to conclude that any of them would willingly subsume themselves to any controlling force. They all have their own groups of useful idiots doing their bidding.

Your skepticism is among the most important ongoing elements contributing to the health of this forum. Don't stop.

[gwynned]

Check out the commentary. No one knows why Qaddaffi is firing anti aircraft missiles since there's no one flying but..... and, the Arab League signed on to protect civilians not to kill them.

Not to mention the missiles look more like fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3YAIZ9JBcQ

And of course the body language is great. She's completely undisturbed by the sounds around her and the people fleeing in front of her. It's really hard to believe anyone is buying this at all!

[nonhocapito]

Check out the commentary. No one knows why Qaddaffi is firing anti aircraft missiles since there's no one flying but..... and, the Arab League signed on to protect civilians not to kill them.

Not to mention the missiles look more like fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3YAIZ9JBcQ

And of course the body language is great. She's completely undisturbed by the sounds around her and the people fleeing in front of her. It's really hard to believe anyone is buying this at all!

The video does not show missiles but anti-aircraft gunfire, which seems to be a show of strength on the part of Gaddafi. I am not very surprised by this report as it does not contradict what we are being told by other sources, which is that the "allied" forces agreed to destroy a few posts that would prevent them to rule the skies in the areas where the battle supposedly goes on. This for the moment does not include Tripoli, I guess. She doesn't seem completely undisturbed though (look at the swallowing): but either way she could be simulating. Unfortunately there will be so much lying from all sides in the next hours and days, it is going to be so difficult to follow this without inevitably respond to a script rather than to facts.

This other report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihA0bbN4C-8
is also interesting in that it discuss the different interpretations on who broke the ceasefire attacking whom. If this story follows in any way the Milosevic script, I shall remind the fact that the Yugoslavian army tried in all possible ways to not attack Slovenians, back at the beginning of the Yugoslavian civil war, and tried to enforce a ceasefire that the Slovenians broke. But this is not what the media reported back then, and it all went down to justify foreign intervention and the mock trials that followed.

As a reference: here is the UN resolution 1973 that justifies the foreign intervention in Libya, rich with the absurd hypocrisy of sentences like:

find a solution to the crisis which responds to the legitimate demands of the Libyan people

did they made a referendum to assess what the demands of the Libyan people are? What if their demands include no foreign intervention whatsoever?

authorises member states… to take all necessary measures to enforce compliance with the ban on flights

...when vagueness is everything.

[gwynned]

Check out the commentary. No one knows why Qaddaffi is firing anti aircraft missiles since there's no one flying but..... and, the Arab League signed on to protect civilians not to kill them.

Not to mention the missiles look more like fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3YAIZ9JBcQ

And of course the body language is great. She's completely undisturbed by the sounds around her and the people fleeing in front of her. It's really hard to believe anyone is buying this at all!

The video does not show missiles but anti-aircraft gunfire, which seems to be a show of strength on the part of Gaddafi. I am not very surprised by this report as it does not contradict what we are being told by other sources, which is that the "allied" forces agreed to destroy a few posts that would prevent them to rule the skies in the areas where the battle supposedly goes on. This for the moment does not include Tripoli, I guess. She doesn't seem completely undisturbed though (look at the swallowing): but either way she could be simulating. Unfortunately there will be so much lying from all sides in the next hours and days, it is going to be so difficult to follow this without inevitably respond to a script rather than to facts...

How is firing into the air a show of strength or is this just we expect from the crazy muslims who have been pictured throughout this nonflict waving their guns in the back of pick up trucks. Do you honestly think Qaddaffi is that pathetic?

[Dcopymope]

You know, it seems that people have forgotten that Libya was also a part of the PNAC crews "axis of evil" in their 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' document, along with Iran, Syria, Iraq etc, Libya was also on the regime change to do hit list. Virtually everything that is happening today was planned well in advance. As I said before, all of this is just further strategic positioning in preparation for their planned WW3 scenario, as they said in that document among others that they wanted "to retain sufficient combat forces to fight and decisively win multiple large scale theater wars", which is basically a world war scenario. It may be sparked with an attack on Iran.

[nonhocapito]

How is firing into the air a show of strength or is this just we expect from the crazy muslims who have been pictured throughout this nonflict waving their guns in the back of pick up trucks. Do you honestly think Qaddaffi is that pathetic?

I agree with you that it seems pathetic, but it is possible that Gaddafi wants to keep his own people on edge.
If what you imply is that the RT video is completely fake, it seems strange to go to that length to just depict anti-aircraft firing in the void. Besides the fakery would have to be in accord among all news channels: But this not 9/11, a single day on american soil; not all countries are apparently in agreement on this development of the situation (Russia an China included), so maybe their news channels would not play along; it seems hard to imagine how completely faked reports from the capital could go down right now.

[Dcopymope]

How is firing into the air a show of strength or is this just we expect from the crazy muslims who have been pictured throughout this nonflict waving their guns in the back of pick up trucks. Do you honestly think Qaddaffi is that pathetic?

I agree with you that it seems pathetic, but it is possible that Gaddafi wants to keep his own people on edge.
If what you imply is that the RT video is completely fake, it seems strange to go to that length to just depict anti-aircraft firing in the void. Besides the fakery would have to be in accord among all news channels: But this not 9/11, a single day on american soil; not all countries are apparently in agreement on this development of the situation (Russia an China included), so maybe their news channels would not play along; it seems hard to imagine how completely faked reports from the capital could go down right now.

Russia and China just has the appearance of disagreement, but I can assure you that they really don't. This is all nothing more than a dog & pony show to me, when it comes to the major foreign powers.

[nonhocapito]

Russia and China just has the appearance of disagreement, but I can assure you that they really don't. This is all nothing more than a dog & pony show to me, when it comes to the major foreign powers.

But do you think that Russia and China were also in cahoots with the allied powers during the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war? It is possible, of course, but I'll need some collateral before I put my bet on this... my impression so far has been that they tried to react to it, or profit from it (loaning money, changing their alliances accordingly), generally being in a historic position where they cannot take a stance (for example declaring their opposition militarily). But do they really sit at the table that decides? Would the present direction be the direction such nations would want to go? Or isn't the whole fakery-propaganda-and-preemptive-wars exactly a response to these emerging economies? (Take Iran before they take it?) It is true that the history of the cold war and of the space race seems to suggest plenty of secret accords between these forces, but a lot has changed since then, so I don't know -- I guess that's food for an entire new thread altogether...

[gwynned]

How is firing into the air a show of strength or is this just we expect from the crazy muslims who have been pictured throughout this nonflict waving their guns in the back of pick up trucks. Do you honestly think Qaddaffi is that pathetic?

I agree with you that it seems pathetic, but it is possible that Gaddafi wants to keep his own people on edge.
If what you imply is that the RT video is completely fake, it seems strange to go to that length to just depict anti-aircraft firing in the void. Besides the fakery would have to be in accord among all news channels: But this not 9/11, a single day on american soil; not all countries are apparently in agreement on this development of the situation (Russia an China included), so maybe their news channels would not play along; it seems hard to imagine how completely faked reports from the capital could go down right now.

I'm not just implying, I am saying that the entire report is fake. I'll go even further and suggest that the entire Libya rebellion, and reports of French planes and US planes taking out places in Libya is complete bullocks. I've seen nothing that has convinced me that anything at all is happening in Libya. I've seen a burnt out bus.....something that appears on almost every news show. And, there was a burnt out car. The fake jet crashing. Oh, and the eternal arabs-in-pickups shooting in the air thru the desert. Until someone can show me convincing evidence that something extraordinary is happening in Libya, I am concluding that it's business as usual in Tripoli and Benghazi.

[hoi.polloi]

UPDATE: of course, this was the un-PC, evilly pro-Hungarian version. Officially our old Kingdom was a shit place, we are better off in a much smaller country with relatives oppressed over the border, forget it, it is just history, come on get a life! Communism at least modernised our country, but we are un-grateful bastards. And of course, the bolsheviks being all jews does mean a thing, the red terror could have been done by Eskimos just as easily. So all in all, we are primitive savages, fascist scum zu sammen. I am so ashamed.

Your whole take on the thing is interesting, warriorhun, I don't discount your opinion. I prefer hearing the personal history of conflict with a race because then it feels less conclusive.

I think we are just trying to understand things, not "swapping" anything: not trying to make it easy. Certainly you were not "swapping" the muslims with Mitre or the Rothschilds when you figured the bucket stopped with certain corporations of the military-industrial complex or with masonic lodges [...] So, if the zionists were not on the table, but Mitre or other corporations, would you try to "talk it out" with Mitre operatives?

If I had a genuine opportunity to represent myself and my interests at a board of Mitre/Rand/CIA employees, I would make a case for myself and my interests. I believe that is what we - you and me and everyone on this forum - are arguing for. The human right to open up human dialogue. To be heard. Spitting in people's faces is a desperate act of frustration - I'd rather pie them with custard. Just kidding.

Seriously though, I don't see September Clues as completely devoid of diplomacy with these people - be they nasty religious zealot Jews or a cult within the Jewish faith or Zionists or corporatists or technocrats or whatever - even if we sometimes assume probably most or all of them may not think so nicely of us. If they actually genuinely reached out as an agent of the USA shadow government, I would not reject talks. You may call me naive. I say it is the best hope we have for stopping these ridiculous shenanigans from continuing. Some kind of treaty.

I know I am not persecuted. I know americans are not persecuted. Maybe if i go to Tel-aviv and try to sit in front of a segregated bus or drive in a jewish-only freeway, I'd be persecuted. Otherwise, not so much.

I take back the word if it doesn't support our agreement on this matter. Persecution is a loaded noun. Let me try something else. We all have a reason to bitch. My philosophy is that these complaints are not to be discounted outright. They should be weighed and everyone should have something like a "right" to feel listened to and heard. Most of us need the feeling that our complaints aren't discounted by everyone else. You personally, nonhocapito, don't feel the need to complain about your life and that's awesome. I feel somewhat the same, which is perhaps why we are together privileged to bemoan our planet's sneakiest bastards and extend our compassion to those who are bullied by them. I think we are saying mostly the same thing.

Putting myself back on topic, I agree the Lybia target was listed by the PNAC and we should note that much of this has the feel of a coordinated effort to start an artificial reason for global conflict - which will be funded and coordinated on all sides by a sort of Zionist/Masonic/Banking/Military "elite" that profits from the bloodshed and the catalyst of war to remake nations the way they want to see them influenced.

[Dcopymope]

Russia and China just has the appearance of disagreement, but I can assure you that they really don't. This is all nothing more than a dog & pony show to me, when it comes to the major foreign powers.

But do you think that Russia and China were also in cahoots with the allied powers during the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war? It is possible, of course, but I'll need some collateral before I put my bet on this... my impression so far has been that they tried to react to it, or profit from it (loaning money, changing their alliances accordingly), generally being in a historic position where they cannot take a stance (for example declaring their opposition militarily). But do they really sit at the table that decides? Would the present direction be the direction such nations would want to go? Or isn't the whole fakery-propaganda-and-preemptive-wars exactly a response to these emerging economies? (Take Iran before they take it?) I guess that's food for an entire new thread altogether...

My educated opinion, the fact that the Bolshevik revolution which led the way to communism in Russia was instigated and financed by the west tells me all I need to know about Russia. As for China, western aristocrats, elitists like Bertrand Russell was sent to China throughout the 1920's & 30's to train who would become the first leaders of the Communist party. He himself admits that in his books. So of course they control China. I think that the Boxer rebellion was an attempt by the Chinese people to kick out the foreign powers that were taking over. The ruling establishment would have never given up their entire industrial base to China if they didn't already own it lock, stock and barrel, basic common sense.

[warriorhun]

Dear gwynned,

you say:

I'm not just implying, I am saying that the entire report is fake. I'll go even further and suggest that the entire Libya rebellion, and reports of French planes and US planes taking out places in Libya is complete bullocks. I've seen nothing that has convinced me that anything at all is happening in Libya. I've seen a burnt out bus.....something that appears on almost every news show. And, there was a burnt out car. The fake jet crashing. Oh, and the eternal arabs-in-pickups shooting in the air thru the desert. Until someone can show me convincing evidence that something extraordinary is happening in Libya, I am concluding that it's business as usual in Tripoli and Benghazi.

It occurred to me, too: nothing going on, Gaddhafi plays along.
Do not stop my man, elaborate on your views and keep up discussing it with us! I have an open mind to your interpretation, do not stop there! Your scenario is a possible scenario IMO. Maybe it is just psy-war. I think the correct military term for such thing is MindWar.
(But I personally find the other scenario my favourite, real with Mistaravim infiltration and all )

The Russians are on about Libya and fakery again, very sharply:
RT Exposes LIBYA Conflict as an ILLUSION & FRAUD NEW WORLD ORDER 1 2 Best of RT War Timeline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sy9pW2Q7HU
Exposing the shit in Russian Media means only one thing: it is Russian national interest, not that they are cahoots with us in exposing Media fakery. Their reports can be just as fake from Libya
Worth watching very much!

UPDATE:

Dear gwynned,

you have my total concentration and attention. So, a Media hoax, a film Wag the dog-style, "live " on TV? A possible MindWar scenario? Pictures are faked, videos are faked, news are faked. What makes the rest credible? Nothing. See, this is the catch-22 of exposing media fakery. We can not tell what is really happening by watching faked imagery, we can only speculate.
Wonder what nonhocapito will think.

So, folks, the big question:

Is it a simple MindWar scenario?

[nonhocapito]

Is it a simple MindWar scenario?

I am open to the possibility, but I wouldn't get too excited about it, because if you marry that angle you might find that not all the pieces fall into place. It took us years to figure out 9/11 because we had to appreciate the consequences of it too.

At the end of the day we will have to design a coherent picture, and I'm not seeing this happening. It is too early.

If Gaddafi is in cahoots with the west, what's the babbling about "al quaeda" about? If both parts are fake-fighting against each other, why the script feels so lame, with not some more hollywoodian convincing action, to better justify in our eyes the intervention? It is fake, it is cheap, let's see some serious fighting! But we don't see it, because there isn't any, that's what you say. And I agree (if we talk about insurgency war). Too bad this completely undermines your 100% fake approach, see? You pick up on information by the media, all the time insisting that everything the media tells you is fake. Not cool.

If Gaddafi is just an actor in this script, why he's not making it easier for the west to act indignant on some outrageous action of his? Why is he trying to cool things down? Why not go apeshit on the west? And if these dictators like Gaddafi are really agents for the west, what is the need to remove them? If we have corporations profiting from war, where is the profit if the war is completely fake, if no $750,000 missiles are launched, and there is no destruction at all?
If Israel is behind this, and Purim has a symbolic meaning to make the bloodbath ritual, where the symbology goes once everything is fake? (9/11 was not purim. Iraq was purim. See what i mean?)
Even if Gaddafi is in cahoots, millions of Libyans are certainly not. They have to be subdued, they have to be convinced that the Jahmariya have lost grip on the nation, they have to see their army be disbanded or disarmed, in other words there has to be an invasion and there has to be fighting and people have to die. So there you go, it cannot be 100% fake.

Don't let this "everything is fake" idea take completely over. Be open to the idea that there is still a world out there where variables are at play not under big brother's control. Was Milosveic in cahoots with NATO when they bombed Belgrade, and Serbia lost Kosovo (an historically serbian region) to the Albanese? is that why he ended up in a jail in Holland, where he then conveniently had a heart attack and died?