OSLO and UTØYA, 7/22 2011

[Maat]

Maat/Brian

There is nothing amiss with the different perspectives of the ferry boat. The "bulkhead" thing doesn't disappear, nor does the muddy floor, they are obscured.

I have much respect for both of you, but I do believe that a lot of the photographic analysis on this board (it was the same with 7/7) is flawed. ...

Actually, I appreciate what you're saying about the differing (intended) perspectives of the boat, which is precisely why I re-examined my first impressions of them, trying to correct any misperceptions of mine that could be misleading. My apologies for not being clearer in my revision (I shouldn't try to explain weird crap when over-tired ); but generalizations like "a lot of photographic analysis on this board is flawed" are really not as helpful as specifics

As I said, 'they show the intended perspective but end up proving more impossible — the white 'partition' thing is supposed to be a view from above the roof of the wheelhouse (which is right at the back of the boat!)'. Ref: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2357438

I still can't understand how those 'perspectives', supposedly from above and behind the wheelhouse roof, explain away the practical impossibilities of that perspective in the first place! i.e. Where was the "photographer" ?

Because they are contrived, their 'perspectives' are obviously "flawed" to begin with, so it's hardly surprising if we have trouble figuring out WTF it's supposed to represent in the process — and analysis is a tedious 'trial & error' learning process anyway, is it not?

**EDIT: Maybe this will help demonstrate why my brain can't reconcile these images with real 3D objects — i.e. how the visible area & angles of the upright 'roof' edge (outlined in red) appear to remain static, impervious to depicted changes in 'perspective'

1.) High from behind & to the right:

2.) Higher from above:

3.) High as 2 & slightly to the left:


*** Edit NOTE: Forward bow end of the steel railing, the two mooring bitts (not visible in pic 1.) definitely change position in pics 2. & 3. with the perspective view changes, but not the roof edge angles?

[jewson]

I promise to try to keep to the images in future. btw all the posters on here who dismissed my previous entries, I have spoken to Simon personally and we are on the same page with re. to almost everything.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, I've been using a computer program to check for anagrams of 'Anders Behring Breivik.' Here were the top results:

Brandishing
Inbreedings (!)
Renderings (!)

Not that this means anything, but funny nonetheless.

[jewson]

(Continuing from that http://vg.no/vgpluss/article/1LaxOvUp article)

In no way are these the same side of the same boat:

You are wrong. It's the same boat.

[jewson]

I cropped the van out:

Forgive me if I've missed something, but it seems to me that the very existence (at least
in a whole lot of photographs) of this vehicle must be a huge problem for those
who wish to defend the official version of events. Even if there actually IS an "Anders Behring
Breivik" who rented this vehicle, how does that explain it's precence on tiny Utøya? Clearly
no-one is suggesting that Breivik brought this vehicle on the Ferry? Even if that had been
possible, for what reason would he have wanted to do that? To park it next to the pier,
in a manouver that could only hinder his planned actions? For that matter: Has a vehicle
this size ever been brought to Utøya? If one has: When was the last time
something like that happened? Well, I'm just full of questions...

A good question. Actually two! What about the second van?

AAB did not rent this van. Both vans were used by the staff at Utoya.

[jewson]

The brown deck still vanishes on this 'shape-shifting' thing...but where the hell was the "photographer" supposed to be — hanging from a sky hook ?

Helicopter?

[Maat]

The brown deck still vanishes on this 'shape-shifting' thing...but where the hell was the "photographer" supposed to be — hanging from a sky hook ?

Helicopter?

'Tail-gating' the ferry, creating no shadow, downdraft or wash?

Did you miss this requirement?

[Makkonen]

You are wrong. It's the same boat.

Dear jewson, you are onto something! We are quite obviously meant to think it's the same "boat", but they just forgot to keep the rendering consistent. The first picture shows absolutely abysmal rendering on the ship's side whilst the second pic shows a bit more realistic, but nevertheless drastically different rendering from the first pic. The ontological status of the boat or the "boat" is a moot point when the represented reality in these photos breaks down during a short fucking "boat trip".

[Kentrailer]

I made this video a few days back, but it's still relevant...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSn8MiSwoVc

[Heiwa]

Both vans were used by the staff at Utoya.

Do you have any details how the vans were brought to the little island, i.e. by a boat; type of boat, its certificate, how to get vans on/off boat on mainland/island, why vans were used (and not a hand pulled cart or similar to transport goods)?

[Maat]

Good job on the "photographers", trauma & Makkonen!

Yeah, "Nackstrand" is very weird, but Matt Dunham cracked me up, so I guess we can say Matt done 'em, did he?

Here's another 'Jonathan NACKSTRAND' pic of 'tombstone rock', with a nice red umbrella.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/ ... 35605.html

First of 4 various pics 'by' JEFF J MITCHELL / GETTY IMAGES, FERDINAND OSTROP / AP, & JON-ARE BERG-JACOBSEN / AFP/GETTY IMAGES for mannequin ABB in car window.

[SmokingGunII]

Maat/Brian

There is nothing amiss with the different perspectives of the ferry boat. The "bulkhead" thing doesn't disappear, nor does the muddy floor, they are obscured.

I have much respect for both of you, but I do believe that a lot of the photographic analysis on this board (it was the same with 7/7) is flawed. ...

Actually, I appreciate what you're saying about the differing (intended) perspectives of the boat, which is precisely why I re-examined my first impressions of them, trying to correct any misperceptions of mine that could be misleading. My apologies for not being clearer in my revision (I shouldn't try to explain weird crap when over-tired ); but generalizations like "a lot of photographic analysis on this board is flawed" are really not as helpful as specifics

As I said, 'they show the intended perspective but end up proving more impossible — the white 'partition' thing is supposed to be a view from above the roof of the wheelhouse (which is right at the back of the boat!)'. Ref: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2357438

I still can't understand how those 'perspectives', supposedly from above and behind the wheelhouse roof, explain away the practical impossibilities of that perspective in the first place! i.e. Where was the "photographer" ?

Because they are contrived, their 'perspectives' are obviously "flawed" to begin with, so it's hardly surprising if we have trouble figuring out WTF it's supposed to represent in the process — and analysis is a tedious 'trial & error' learning process anyway, is it not?

**EDIT: Maybe this will help demonstrate why my brain can't reconcile these images with real 3D objects — i.e. how the visible area & angles of the upright 'roof' edge (outlined in red) appear to remain static, impervious to depicted changes in 'perspective'

1.) High from behind & to the right:

2.) Higher from above:

3.) High as 2 & slightly to the left:


*** Edit NOTE: Forward bow end of the steel railing, the two mooring bitts (not visible in pic 1.) definitely change position in pics 2. & 3. with the perspective view changes, but not the roof edge angles?

Maat/Brian

I will do my best to explain without the use of diagrams as I haven't time to do this.

Firstly, the picture sequence should be shown in it's chronological order, which is 2,3,1. The photographer is using a telefoto lens which foreshortens distances. Where is he? I have no idea, but his position doesn't move, the boat does.

Maat - you have indicated a panel shape and suggested that this doesn't change. It does, it becomes more elongated as it would the further away the boat was (in fact, your red marks bleed of the image and don't show the whole of the panel. Yes, the angle of the joint doesn't change much and this is correct. Look at the panel it is joined to to the front. We can see this panel in pic 2 because it is almost below us. Once the boat moves away and turns to the left (reference rails on right), it is not visible. The same accounts for the mooring posts "disappearing behind the guard rail. The boat has moved away from the viewer, thus there position in relation to the guard rail is lower & foreshortened.

The muddy floor is visible in pic 2 for the same reason as above. Once the boat moves away and turns to the left, the floor is out of sight below the "white roof". In fact, in pic1, which as I said is the 3rd in the sequence, it can be seen again as the boat has moved further away.

Brian - you questioned where the shelf where Brievik is resting his hand and the cop is leaning against went in pic 3? It is clearly still there. Cop 1 (flatcap) is still leaning on it. Note the 4 holes to his right. You can just see AB's fingers which corresponds with pic 2. Brievik has also been tethered to the guard rail. The strap can be clearly seen in all 3 photos.

I hope this is clear?

PS. Since I posted last night re flawed photo analysis, Trauma has posted another image claiming the foot is missing. I rest my case.

[Heiwa]

Below is a photo of the island Utøya from Google Earth copied today:

Up is North, right is East. The jetty, where a boat disembarks visitors and an alleged killer/mass murderer ABB to island, is indicated by me in red on the east side of Utøya.
The island Utøya is located in the small Tyrifjord lake. There are a few other islands in that lake. The biggest one is connected to mainland by a little bridge.
Why anybody would bring a car or van ... or two vans ... to Utøya is beyond my understanding. I doubt there is a boat that can load/unload vans on islands in the Tyrifjord. It doesn't work like that.
Photos of vans, jetty, white main house in back ground, armed police running up, body bags on shore, etc, on Internet do not really tally with above picture of the island and are thus fake. Same with photos of ABB (or whoever???) on a boat re-visiting the island for mysterious reasons. I suggest they are fakes, too.

[brianv]

Maat/Brian

There is nothing amiss with the different perspectives of the ferry boat. The "bulkhead" thing doesn't disappear, nor does the muddy floor, they are obscured.

I have much respect for both of you, but I do believe that a lot of the photographic analysis on this board (it was the same with 7/7) is flawed. ...

Actually, I appreciate what you're saying about the differing (intended) perspectives of the boat, which is precisely why I re-examined my first impressions of them, trying to correct any misperceptions of mine that could be misleading. My apologies for not being clearer in my revision (I shouldn't try to explain weird crap when over-tired ); but generalizations like "a lot of photographic analysis on this board is flawed" are really not as helpful as specifics

As I said, 'they show the intended perspective but end up proving more impossible — the white 'partition' thing is supposed to be a view from above the roof of the wheelhouse (which is right at the back of the boat!)'. Ref: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2357438

I still can't understand how those 'perspectives', supposedly from above and behind the wheelhouse roof, explain away the practical impossibilities of that perspective in the first place! i.e. Where was the "photographer" ?

Because they are contrived, their 'perspectives' are obviously "flawed" to begin with, so it's hardly surprising if we have trouble figuring out WTF it's supposed to represent in the process — and analysis is a tedious 'trial & error' learning process anyway, is it not?

**EDIT: Maybe this will help demonstrate why my brain can't reconcile these images with real 3D objects — i.e. how the visible area & angles of the upright 'roof' edge (outlined in red) appear to remain static, impervious to depicted changes in 'perspective'

1.) High from behind & to the right:

2.) Higher from above:

3.) High as 2 & slightly to the left:


*** Edit NOTE: Forward bow end of the steel railing, the two mooring bitts (not visible in pic 1.) definitely change position in pics 2. & 3. with the perspective view changes, but not the roof edge angles?

Possibly so, but how has the distance between the upper deck and side of boat changed in pics 2&3? Perspective? Where was the photographer situated?

Is he really cut out for this?

[Heiwa]

Where was the photographer situated?

Is the boat really in the Tyrifjord lake? I doubt it very much.

[Makkonen]

Good job on the "photographers", trauma & Makkonen!

Yeah, "Nackstrand" is very weird, but Matt Dunham cracked me up, so I guess we can say Matt done 'em, did he?

Here's another 'Jonathan NACKSTRAND' pic of 'tombstone rock', with a nice red umbrella.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/ ... 35605.html

First of 4 various pics 'by' JEFF J MITCHELL / GETTY IMAGES, FERDINAND OSTROP / AP, & JON-ARE BERG-JACOBSEN / AFP/GETTY IMAGES for mannequin ABB in car window.

Thanks, Maat. Also thanks for the new memorial pic. I especially love the rightmost one in it.

In fact, when we adjust color levels, we get...


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