Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.

Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby fbenario on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:46 am

hoi.polloi wrote:Why do you assume such a defensive position so quickly?
...
This place is full of inquisitive, discriminating minds, looking for answers and proofs. You knew that your story would arouse curiosity here, yet you act offended when we ask for details.

Astronut, be aware that one of the two quickest ways to get yourself banned from this forum is to post responses that are defensive, emotional, or repetitious in any way or amount.

The other is obviously to post doctored images/videos and claim them as 'real'. Looks to me you've violated both rules.

Adios. And I don't wish you well. Buh-bye.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:32 am

astronut wrote:Oh, let me guess, I explain and photograph all of it, which I'm happy to do, then one of you claims he wasn't able to find ISS and therefore it must be fake, even though he didn't really try. Sorry, but a claimed negative attempt does not disprove positive confirmation. We're not going to play that game. Tell you what, come to the Chiefland Fall Star Party this year and I'll show you ISS in person, straight through the eyepiece.


I for one would give it a legitimate go, if it were physically possible. Thusfar, it does seem possible. Isn't that saying something? But for you it's not enough. You demand instant trust and respect as if you could slam the side of a "Trust" vending machine. You can't pull that here. If you don't want bullshit, stop peddling it, sir!

Your position is very fragile, but it doesn't have to be.

- You say you have many people who will support your position. (A useless statement as numbers of believers does not make something true. Look at Religion, or cults as an example.)

- You say the responsibility is on us to prove you are false. (Also false. We are not here to prove you are false. We exert our human right to doubt the word of another. We doubt you. There is no further responsibility on your part or ours. You act as though you want to be trusted, or else you would be content with being mistrusted and leave it alone. If you act in good faith, and you want to be trusted by us, then please continue to answer our questions. It is a very long process. Have patience.)

- You claim to have a better sense of truth or falsehood by labeling hoaxes uncovered on this site as not hoaxes. (Big mistake. You want to take on every piece of blatantly false propaganda? The 9/11 propaganda? The 7/7 propaganda? The Apollo 11 missions? You want to challenge all of this? Then get busy in those individual forums, saying the "nose out" error is just a glitch and there was no CGI used on 9/11 footage. But you haven't done any work to claim such things. By making sweeping statements about things you haven't researched yourself, your attempts to gain credibility appear as little more than poorly researched, paranoid, overly-defensive ad hominim attacks. It's almost as if you have a stake in disproving the underlying credibility of the premise of this forum, rather than reading about every subject here and judging on an individual, case-by-case basis. That's not very scientific, is it?)

- You claim you have been accused of being part of a "conspiracy" and that that is the very purpose of this forum. (No. This shows a failure to understand why we are here. We want to know what is true. But that means being able to test it for ourselves. If you stop sharing information about how you specifically made this image, in detail, then there is no reason anybody in the world, including your fellow experts, should believe the story you give about it. All this information:

For the record, I use a Meade 8" LX200 Classic Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope, Brent Boshart's Satellite Tracker software, and a Meade LPI strapped to the viewfinder for acquiring ISS while recording it through the main telescope with a modified Samsung SDC-435 at prime focus (with or without a 2x barlow). I also use anti-vibration pads to help stabilize the view and a video capture card to record the video from the SDC-435 (I do have a mallincam, but I find the Samsung provides sharper views of bright objects like ISS). You can see what this setup looks like, in this case with the samsung attached to a widefield refractor that I sometimes use for astrophotography, here:
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm47 ... cd0baf.jpg
This setup can be replicated for about $3000


... is a good start. But let's keep going. Please explain how these things interact to form the picture. Please explain how you found where the ISS is and how you captured it.)

Because the majority of the ISS pictures we've posted here appear to be doctored in some way, it is safe to assume there is a reason for it. The pictures did not "doctor themselves."

Ergo, there is a concerted effort to hide information. If you want to call that a conspiracy, and therefore lump yourself in it should you turn out to be a fraud, be our guest. We are just as happy to call frauds "fraud" and not lump them in a collaborative effort. You seem to hold a suspicious belief that the stakes of proving your legitimacy include revealing a conspiracy. Why is that? Why so worried about the implications of your credibility? Expose the truth and show there is no room for photoshopping this picture. Or, if it is photoshopped, show your innocence.

But that's not what people have directly accused you of. Please read carefully and stop acting so defensive as if you have a strong foothold on reality whereas we don't. We are treating you very fairly, and as we would treat anyone who claims to have a legitimate stake in science and the truth. If you are so confident, stop calling us names just because we are questioning you.

Also, if you are legitimate, you must see the following perspective: we don't know you are legitimate yet and therefore, from our perspective, you could be lying. How does your demand for trust actually make your more trustworthy? It does not. Stop demanding respect while accusing all the forum members, in sweeping statements, of being out of their minds. It comes across as very desperate and very ... alarmist, groupthink mob-mentality.

Kind of something Fox News would do to discredit someone underhandedly by smearing them and distorting their words. Stop it now.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby Heiwa on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:47 am

It seems the 100x100 m or so ISS is orbiting Earth every 90 minutes at 350 000 - 400 000 m altitude with a speed of 7 800 m/s from west to east. So from the point of view of a photographer down on Earth the ISS rises in the west and sets in the east and the pass over the sky visible from the photographer may take a minute or so. Best time to capture the ISS (if it exists) is when you are in the shade (night, dawn or dusk) down on Earth and the ISS (or whatever in the black sky) is illuminated by the Sun ... and the weather is perfectly clear with no clouds or anything blocking the view. It seems the ISS is so far away that it is not visible with the naked eye - not even as a twinkling star speeding by - so you need strong binoculars or telescope - and ... it passes only a minute every 90 minutes.
Doing some calculations it would appear that ISS dot occupies 0.00849% of the sky above, if you happen to be below and look up. :P
It would be interesting to know how Astronut got all this together. A perfectly clear early morning before sun rises in the east - sky still black - and the ISS was speeding by ready for the shooting?
Last edited by Heiwa on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby lux on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:35 pm

lux wrote:My view ... is that there may be an object up there which was put there just for the purpose of amateur viewing via telescopes or other such observations.


In reconsideration of the above thought (of mine) I now have another thought:

Which would be easier? Placing a phony ISS in actual orbit around the Earth to give amateur astronomers something to look at ... or,
... placing some phony amateur astronomers who present fake images that they say they captured of the ISS?

Hmmm ... :blink:
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby reichstag fireman on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:48 pm

There is open source software that can track the movement of the celestial dots claimed to be "artificial satellites". This includes the dot we have come to know and love as the "International Space Station".

One "satellite tracking" tool is called PREDICT by John A. Magliacane. It is a free download from http://www.qsl.net/kd2bd/

Image

All "satellite tracking" software relies on an orbital object dataset published by NASA. It is known as the TLE set. TLE means Two Line Element. Each orbiting object has a two-line entry, hence the name TLE.

Each entry contains an array of orbital parameters for an object. Here is today's TLE entry for the "International Space Station":

ISS (ZARYA)
1 25544U 98067A 12278.82122685 .00025880 00000-0 44884-3 0 4117
2 25544 051.6464 296.5983 0018412 129.2636 226.5080 15.50516204795042


The full dataset which is updated frequently can be obtained from here: http://www.tle.info

Some random observations on the NASA TLE set:

  • Among the dataset of 1,633 orbiting objects there are entries for numerous "geostationary satellites" (for those who believe in such things). Yet it is not clear who wants to track something that is, supposedly, perfectly stationary. :unsure:

  • Many of the orbiting objects (whatever they are..) are listed multiple times under identical but separate entries in the dataset. Why? As such, the dataset contains many less than 1,633 unique entries.

  • Some of the orbiting objects have fascinating histories (real or imaginary) with extraordinary tales of dedication to public service. Oscar-7, for example, an "artificial satellite" reportedly launched November 1974, has an amazing legend of his own.

    Tragically, just seven years after lift-off, Oscar-7 suffered catastrophic battery failure. His operators AMSAT had long since given him up for dead. Yet, quite miraculously, in 2002, an astonishing 21 years later, Oscar-7 suddenly burst back into life. And once again his cheerful chirpy song rang out across the world! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMSAT-OSCAR_7

  • The orbiting objects (whatever they are..) do not follow entirely predictable paths. Consequently, NASA has to regularly update the TLE dataset to accommodate this uncharted motion. What does this unpredictable movement reveal about the orbiting objects, and their true identity (if they are not "artificial satellites" as claimed)?

  • The orbital paths of these objects, which many suspect are of primaeval origin, are hardly understood at all. This is an unfortunate inconvenience which NASA can exploit for its own benefit. For us, the largely undefined motion of these objects complicates a key task: correlating their movements to the observations of astronomers of old. Pioneering astronomers, men of real repute, true scientists who never suckled on the noxious NASA titty-bottle. Conscientious amateurs offering their genuine observations of these baffling orbital objects - the "minor planets", "planetoids", "asteroids", a.k.a. "artificial satellites" or whatever it is we currently must call them.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby simonshack on Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:28 am

*

Dear Astronut,

This guy apparently captured both the shuttle and the ISS in great detail with a 20-year-old Newton telescope - and a Canon Eos 40D DSLR :


Amateur photographer captures space shuttle from back garden
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/spac ... arden.html

Image


How come your ISS imagery is so vastly inferior to the above image? :huh:
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby Libero on Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:03 am

Simon and all,

It's up to you if you want to spend another second of your time paying attention to this astronut guy. I spent a bit of time checking him out on some of the various sites that he appears to have ID's and based on the very good information that fellow member michiganJ posted on August 27.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=720&start=450

He's left a fairly obvious trail for a few years it appears.

This same guy, astronut (apparently also known as both astronut and astromut on the GLP site) looks to have even tested the mettle of their members on many occasions with his arrogant 'I showed it, now you prove it approach'. On the ATS site where he is known as ngchunter, he has posted items such as this one (actual links to videos added by me):

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread391294/pg1

"Videos showing parachute deployment at high altitude and supersonic speed, simulating a martian level of atmospheric pressure. Parachute has no problems deploying and braking the payload:
lisar.larc.nasa.gov... http://lisar.larc.nasa.gov/MOVIES/MEDIU ... -00053.mov
lisar.larc.nasa.gov... http://lisar.larc.nasa.gov/MOVIES/MEDIU ... -00054.mov"

[ADMIN: The above video links seem to have become defunct. Please consider the two below links instead. Thank you. -HP 1-17-18]

VIDEO 1:
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://li ... -00053.mov

VIDEO 2:
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://li ... -00054.mov


and when challenged by even their members as to the validity of the videos he responds like this:

"You've been already been asked to provide proof by myself and others and have refused to answer it. I provided proof that parachutes work at martian atmospheric pressure, the least you could do is to provide proof that they don't, let alone proof that my videos were faked. Here's another one, at even higher altitude, 52.3km to be exact. Once again, it works.
lisar.larc.nasa.gov...

By the way, would you care to explain why computer simulations of the mission show the craft working just as described at martian atmospheric pressure, gravity, etc? "


On the Discover website (the same one that published his video) there is also a person with the ID of NGCHunter. On post 301, you will find out exactly what he claims his favorite ground photo is of the ISS is (despite the obvious off-color of the solar panels :D.) Post 300 directly above will once again show his 'you saw it now you prove it' attitude.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... -thursday/

http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/~astrolab/m ... towitz.jpg


Oh, and hey look! This same Discover site re-printed the photo you provided in your post above.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... agazine%29

From this same article toward the top you will see that it is a man from France who is truly the king of snapping the ISS. :rolleyes:

[UPDATE: Another phenomenal astrophotographer, BA favorite Thierry Legault, has posted a stunning animation of an ISS/Discovery flyover on his website.]

http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/STS-133.html

[ADMIN: The above link appears to have been removed. Please consider the archive version below. -HP 1-17-18]

https://web.archive.org/web/20121006001 ... S-133.html


Edit: Look... It's on NASA too! :wacko: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegal ... _1879.html
Oh, and be aware of messierhunter on youtube as well pitching astronut's same video.

lux wrote:
lux wrote:My view ... is that there may be an object up there which was put there just for the purpose of amateur viewing via telescopes or other such observations.


In reconsideration of the above thought (of mine) I now have another thought:

Which would be easier? Placing a phony ISS in actual orbit around the Earth to give amateur astronomers something to look at ... or,
... placing some phony amateur astronomers who present fake images that they say they captured of the ISS?

Hmmm ... :blink:



I am in full agreement with Lux 's second conclusion on this one, FWIW. The media lets through what the media wants to let through.

One final addition to note. It appears that the Chiefland Fall Star Party that astronut seems to promote -- it very well may exist. For some reason though, they have chosen not to display on either their website or facebook page, any of astronut's monumental achievements.

http://chieflandstarpartygroup.com/

https://www.facebook.com/chieflandstarpartygroup
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby fbenario on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:49 am

It's banning time. Get rid of Astronut ASAP. Now we have proof he acts malignantly everywhere he goes, is an inhumane sociopath (no empathy for other people), and helps no one with any of his posts. We simply can't waste any more time on such an asshole.

Some poor soul living with him needs to sit him down and tell him to grow the f**k up, and try to be a 'real' man, mature and serious in his interactions with others. Moron.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby lux on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:31 pm

FYI a SpaceX Dragon rocket is due to launch today to ... eh hem ... bring supplies to the ISS.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49320331/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.UHICSlElB1A

This, I'm sure, will mean more funny YouTube videos depicting this awe-inspiring event to entertain us. :D
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby TrutherInTX on Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:59 pm

On this supposed latest launch SpaceX Falcon 9 Blows an Engine at precisely 1:19 seconds, http://www.floridatoday.com/article/201 ... ck_check=1. <_<


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvTIh96otDw

In this second article I particularly liked the quote below, http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 7-20-36-27.

"An estimated 2,400 guests jammed the launching center to see the Falcon, with its Dragon, come to life for SpaceX's first official, operational supply mission. Across the country at SpaceX headquarters, about 1,000 employees watched via TV and webcast. It was no apparition."

Right, no apparition ;)
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby Heiwa on Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:57 pm

"The Dragon will spend close to three weeks at the space station before being released and parachuting into the Pacific at the end of October. By then, the space station should be back up to a full crew of six."

Imagine the lack of imagination of SpaceX. The Dragon will just drop down, decelerated by parachutes, from the ISS at 400 000 m altitude, into the Pacific. :lol: :D :P :o :blink: :wacko:
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby fast67vellen2o on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:27 pm

I watched the SpaceX live broadcast last night and while it was maneuvering into orbit, the video appeared to be looped from 5:26 onward until around the 9 minute mark.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQNJG8MPcIc
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby astronut on Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:59 pm

TrutherInTX wrote:On this supposed latest launch SpaceX Falcon 9 Blows an Engine at precisely 1:19 seconds, http://www.floridatoday.com/article/201 ... ck_check=1. <_<


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvTIh96otDw

In this second article I particularly liked the quote below, http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 7-20-36-27.

"An estimated 2,400 guests jammed the launching center to see the Falcon, with its Dragon, come to life for SpaceX's first official, operational supply mission. Across the country at SpaceX headquarters, about 1,000 employees watched via TV and webcast. It was no apparition."

Right, no apparition ;)

I was there, saw it myself, videoed it myself. It was no apparition.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4c18sJynC4
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby astronut on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:05 pm

simonshack wrote:
astronut wrote: Aside from the ISS in daylight video, my best night video is probably this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E6bQcvT9W4


That's truly impressive, Astronut! So this would be your best night video of the ISS - dated 2011 ? :)

As far as video's go, yes, I think that's my best night video.
However, it seems that this guy Dirk Ewers had rather better luck/or equipment than you, back in 2007/2008:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDlRm87fQaY

I wasn't aware this was a pissing contest. Dirk's video is excellent indeed.
Now, regarding the colors of the solar panels. That's an interesting question indeed.
This is what you wrote regarding that "Fakinghoaxer's" CGI video I submitted (see my previous post) :

astronut wrote: I will also say he did try to correct one major error that any moron could see; the color of the solar panels is all wrong.


So, what color are the ISS solar panels supposed to be? This was, in fact, a question that I posted at the very beginning of this thread (have you read this thread at all, btw?):

Yes, I've read the thread. Your problem seems to be with a severe lack of understanding of how the solar panel's albedo varies with the angle it is viewed at relative to the sun, another mistake TFH made as well. You two seem like you make a lot of the same mistakes.
But first, you will have to make a very good case in defense of its authenticity - and this means answering the many questions posted (not only by myself) on this 35-page-long thread.

I'm not going to search the entire 35 page thread and answer every single question. That is not my purpose here. I know for a fact that ISS is real, I've seen it myself, and I've been accused of faking my images many times on this thread. That is all I am currently concerned with, the defamation leveled against me.
And no, we are not "conspiracy theorists",

Then you are in deep denial.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE ISS

Unread postby astronut on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:12 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:
astronut wrote:Oh, let me guess, I explain and photograph all of it, which I'm happy to do, then one of you claims he wasn't able to find ISS and therefore it must be fake, even though he didn't really try. Sorry, but a claimed negative attempt does not disprove positive confirmation. We're not going to play that game. Tell you what, come to the Chiefland Fall Star Party this year and I'll show you ISS in person, straight through the eyepiece.


I for one would give it a legitimate go, if it were physically possible. Thusfar, it does seem possible. Isn't that saying something? But for you it's not enough. You demand instant trust and respect as if you could slam the side of a "Trust" vending machine. You can't pull that here. If you don't want bullshit, stop peddling it, sir!

I'm not peddling bullshit. I demand that you cease your defamation about me, that is not too much to ask.
- You say the responsibility is on us to prove you are false.

Yes, otherwise I could sue you for defamation. If you want to see how real I am, come to the Chiefland Fall Star Party in November and see for yourself. I'll show you ISS in person, right in the eyepiece. Put up or shut up time, boys and girls. If you truly believe your claims about me then show up and record me not being able to track ISS, otherwise drop the defamatory bullshit.
... is a good start. But let's keep going. Please explain how these things interact to form the picture. Please explain how you found where the ISS is and how you captured it.)

You could find all that out yourself if you bothered to do even a modicum of proper research on the information I have already given you. Brent Boshart's software takes any two-line element set and uses it to predict the path of any given satellite. I simply loaded ISS's orbital data into the software and clicked "track." It found ISS automatically and put it in the viewfinder. Then I simply used the mouse to adjust the tracking to compensate for small pointing and/or timing errors and put ISS in the main camera.
Because the majority of the ISS pictures we've posted here appear to be doctored in some way,

It only "appears" that way to idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about, which is precisely why the same accusations were made about my videos.
Expose the truth and show there is no room for photoshopping this picture.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Either show up to Chiefland and prove that I am lying or shut up. Your choice. If you chose neither, then please provide your name and address so that I may file a law suit against you.
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