LightCone wrote:I don't think the very crux of anonymity is deception.
What would we really gain if everyone used their real names anyways?
What, to you, IS the crux? And what other goals of anonymity are so obvious to you?
Anonymity is simply a means of presenting and exchanging information. It can be a means for some people to present information that they wouldn't otherwise. Yes, it can also be a means of deception but we can't assume anonymity - at its very essence - is deceptive. We have to examine the use of anonymity on a case-by-case basis in order to determine if it is being used in a deceptive manner. Just like we are doing in this thread regarding the anonymity that is Wikileaks .
We have a new installment of the Assange melodrama!
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZQDObM-kTw
Hmm...I kind of hope Ecuador grants him asylum, since I'm pretty sure it'll make for fun-times in the federal parliament! I mean, the greens will totally have a field day if this happens, which could really spice up question-time...you know...outside of allowing outright brawls.
All proceeds from Beat the Blockade – available as a downloadable CD for $11.99 and as a "Supporter Version" for $24.99 – will go to WikiLeaks and the Bradley Manning Defense Fund.
obrien wrote:my humble opinion- i smelled a phony from the beginning with this all too slick sumbitch assange. imo not only is wikileaks a state controlled "outlet" but if any real "leakers" are dumb enough to trust them, wikileaks could actually help to lead them to permanent silence by betraying them to those they intended to expose. you dont need wikileaks in the first place - if you have documents, photos, videos, or whatever that exposes some big entity, there are 100's of free online outlets for you to disseminate your info, and you could do it anonymously. you could sit out by a cybercafe, go to a public library or college computer lab, you could steal free unsecured wifi randomly floating in the air, there many ways to whistleblow online with relatively good protection/anonymity and yet still reach a broad audience. so there is no need for any wikileaks.
I totally agree with you. Also, I read somewhere (Can't remember where, but it was a blog) and they stated that he got a high profile lawyer whose law firm works for the Rothschilds. And if anyone here has read Assange's bio, you will know that he was a "traveling person without any assets". How does a no body get such a esteemed person to back him up? Smells funny if you ask me.
Let me add my tuppence worth on the topic of internet ANONIMITY.
First, a question, to you all:
As children, have you ever heard the following sentence from the mouths of your parents?:
-"My son (or daughter), never, ever repeat in school (or anywhere outside our home) what you hear inside our home, because if you do, Father will get into trouble, Father will get hurt! You don't want your Father to get hurt, do you?"
You never heard that sentence? Lucky you! I did.
And mind you, I heard it during the 1980s, long after the 1950s' hardcore Communist insanity, during the time of us being the "happiest barracks". It was during Kádár's regime, when "Everybody who is not against us must be with us", that is, according to Kádár. This meant, The Man did not really want you to believe in Communism, and I doubt it if even they themselves believed in it at all after 1956. All the regime wanted from you is to shut the fuck up and keep your private opinion to yourself, nod approvingly to the official BS, or if asked, be able to repeat it like a parrot as your public opinion.
As an adult, I find I simply can not help myself: this attitude embedded itself into my DNA. In my private life, in my family, I do have my private opinion, but in public, I either shut the fuck up, or nod approvingly to the official BS, not believing a word of it.
Here comes the tricky part: the Internet. The Internet is not a private place but a public place. Posting on forums makes sense only if you are able to give your real, private thoughts: what would be the point otherwise? But as I said, Internet is a public place, therefore your private opinion does not remain your private opinion but becomes your public one! Would I share my private opinion with the public, openly? Fucking NEVER! (I know, I know: the black car does not come for us any more. The days of the doorbell-fever are over forever. Probably. Still, the fear my grandparents experienced in the 1950s is entrenched in our DNA I'm afraid...)
This is where internet anonimity comes in handy. I can share my private thoughts without being worried that they are publicly attached to my private person, and it is a good thing!
Of course, if The Man would want to come after me they could or, at least, spot this computer and its exact location, and then it would be another easy step to identify me. Or anyone for that matter.
But, I would never, ever join any social media, or divulge my name, or address, or workplace, or picture anywhere on the Internet! IMO exposing yourself in such a way to the public is fucking raving lunatic madness, and I simply can not understand why other people are doing it in the first place, especially that they aren't forced to do so! You can be identified that way! And whatever you posted remains there forever!
And we all know: your employers are monitoring the Internet, The Man is monitoring the Internet! This time, its not Father who may get into trouble, but you, and it would be your own doing. Why risking unnecessarily?
Being anonym, being the gray man, is the best survival-tactics! (Especially in times when the freedom of speech means you are free to speak whatever is allowed to be free...) And, this is not some modern thing, either. The Hungarian peasants (some of them were my ancestors) were always tight-lipped peoples, and not due to lack of personal opinions either...
Our conclusion that Wikileaks is just another instrument of TPTB controlled limited-hangout has always struck me as a little too amorphous and general to actually be very meaningful as a justification for their bothering to setup Wikileaks. Now we may have a more substantial, down-to-earth, concrete reason > to 'justify' increased budgetary resources indefinitely into the future.
The New York Times estimates that the real cost [of the National Security Complex] lies in the range of $13 billion, but who knows?
...
The official figure for documents classified by the U.S. government last year is — hold your hats on this one — 92,064,862. And as WikiLeaks managed to release hundreds of thousands of them online a couple of years ago, that’s meant a bonanza of even more money for yet more rigorous protection.
For anyone still following the "Julian's Hiding in the Ecuadorian Embassy" soap opera, please consider this motivational explanation. Assange and his prime rape-accuser, Ms. Ardin, are BOTH spooks. It's long been known that his very birthplace was a CIA-operated mind-control cult/experiment in Aussieland, and now comes new info on her globe-trotting adventures in support of anti-Castro Cubans and other Langley faves.
Plus, there is the glaring fact that none of his thousands of "leaked" government documents ever touched on such dangerous topics as:
1. Longterm CIA drug-running and the crucial need to invade Afghanistan to protect the poppy crop (for the money-laundering international banksters).
2. CIA orchestration of most post-2000 Al Qaeda manouevres, including the bogus assassinations of their "leaders" and their recent alliance with the "freedom-loving rebels" of the Arab Spring.
3. Israeli Mossad covert management of many other "Arab terror" cells and attacks worldwide.
4. The near-total falsity of the official 9/11 and 7/7 narratives.
IF the Assange entity is eventually extradited to the U.S. for successful prosecution under the 1918 Espionage Act, this will likely lead to a de facto (via judicial construction) establishment of an American version of Britain's notorious "Official Secrets Act" -- and the terminal wounding of the First Amendment.
That's the long-term goal of this tawdry, titillating and drawn-out piece of international political theatre, IMHO.
The only reason to think Assange is a CIA operative is that it's hard to explain his ability to outmaneuver the empire with such ease. I have not seen anything he's exposed that I wouldn't believe or support being exposed. Yet, who is he really? He just sort of popped up in center stage. How did he get there and get away with it unless he's working for 'them' as a kind of double agent.
There is another possibility and a quite absurd one. It's that the PTB are and have been the PTW for quite some time. Someone else has been orchestrating this show...persumably with the help of the Chinese and the other BRIC countries in an attempt to gradually introduce us to our new world, post empire. Rather than induce panic by having some Chinese official take over the networks like Orson Welles in War of the Worlds, the idea was to gradually alter the thinking and awaken the masses by a series of events, like the Assange comedy. Of course they thought to throw in a bit of sex to attract attention....kinda like the Batman Massacre drew attention to the LIBOR scandal.
gwynned wrote:The only reason to think Assange is a CIA operative is that it's hard to explain his ability to outmaneuver the empire with such ease.
... There is another possibility and a quite absurd one. It's that the PTB are and have been the PTW for quite some time. Someone else has been orchestrating this show...persumably with the help of the Chinese and the other BRIC countries in an attempt to gradually introduce us to our new world, post empire.
You're right, that other possibility is an absurd one. SInce it's likely that different power-centers are competing at the top of the perp pyramid, Wikileaks seems obviously an attempt by the CIA to undermine the U.S.'s formal government, especially the executive branch.
whatsgoingon wrote:
I like controlled demolition indeed -- crumbling Empire.
How about the notion we are at Edge of Empire? The Empire is crumbling is the theme in general. Banks toast. Housing stock toast. Unemployment. Manned Space Program is pretty much toast. The energy system is exploding and in sorry shape. Heck the State Dept cannot keep the system in check with these wikileaks. Most people are eating the wrong food and overweight and getting "industrial-world" cancers, heart disease, etc. And while Rome burns we have Facebook, terrible movies, and the conspiracy farces of Wikileaks to draw our attention.
Why is Rome (the US) burning? Why is the empire crumbling? Now ask these questions: who will come out stronger? Who will come out weaker?
Is it China? Nope. The uber-rich will come out on top and they will play us into that corner slowly over time with PsyOp after PsyOp.
Well I have said this before. The idea is that those on top need more Debt. The PsyOps are designed to get Debt from the people. The Banks run on Debt. The required infrastructures require investments. Lots of Debt, and they will get it not from the wealthy but from the rest of us.
The question is how does say a PsyOp create debt. Well, I consider the Banking crisis to be a giant Debt-creating tool. I consider food inflation to be a debt-creating tool. Why is food expensive, because the media says there is a shortage, a climate issue, a weather glitch, a crisis and the markets jack up the prices of commodities as a response to the media. Same with Oil, fertilizers, Copper, Zinc, you name it, etc.
Who are the media? They are the Bank's lackeys. Hence the Debts are created out of thin air.
The Debt you carry is the means the powerful control you and make you do things for them. It is how we are kept in line in their system.
So perhaps a crumbling Empire theme makes people feel not so bad that they are in deep in debts.
Here we are.
My 2 cents.
With all due respect you seem to be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Here are some facts about the recent psyops that almost everyone could agree to.
1. The batman massacre drew attention to the LIBOR scandal.
2. The sikh massacre drew attention to alien disclosure.
3. The 'death' of Bin Laden put a final end to that bogeyman. I have not seen anyone replace him.
4. The Norway massacre targeted the far right and publicized the idea of the Knights Templar and thereby 'conspiracy theories.'
5. The Tuscon massacre provided support for immigration by the little 9-11 Mexican girl.
6. Wikileaks exposed and provided irrefutable evidence of the targeting of civilians by the US military.
There are other anecdotal incidents (such as the Queen being at least symbolically thrown from a helicopter) that lead me to conclude that there has been a sea change behind the scenes and/or at the top of the pyramid and those changes are being conveyed to the masses in a systematic and meticulous fashion so as not to wake them up to what is going on while simultaneously changing their viewpoints on things, such as the endless wars and the greedy banksters.
In fact the transition has proceeded so seamlessly it's gone virtually unnoticed.
Another great enterprise of the so called "anonymous" network AKA the organization of free agents who cowardly act in the global online scenario never taking responsibility for their actions.
Links to the material are, so absurdly, mentioned and available in the article linked above, taken from a national news website in Italy. And this is the most astonishing and suspicious thing of all.
The documents vary from personal emails, investigation material and various bureaucratic stuff of the everyday life of the police. In truth there is nothing really shamefully unexpected in them nor seriously incriminating and that's not entirely surprising.
There are doubts over the authenticity of this act, since it seems to reveal an absurd vulnerability of such an important internet governmental reality; furthermore, it goes to show the irresponsibility, idiocy, childish behavior of the so called anonymous hackers, who out of revenge would put over the internet sensitive documents regarding anti-mafia investigations or classified procedures in the handling of prisoners etcetera.
(As if in the hypothetical society these people imagine to live in police would not exist or would not fight crime: The funny or sad thing is that I can imagine and see so well how, were any of these coward "anonymous" hackers made dictators of this or any other countries, they would use the police in repressive and vengeful ways much more than a democratic republic is capable to do.)
It is also important to note that the "revenge" is especially meant in the context of the so called "no tav" wars, that see alleged anarchic and grassroot organizations fighting the Italian government and the EU against the construction of superfast railway lines between France and Italy (see http://translate.google.com/translate?l ... i%2FNo_TAV).
The protesters have their reasons, and so seem to do the institutions involved: however there is no doubt that foreign forces willing to disrupt and hinder the plans of the EU would have all the interest to forage and manipulate these clashes stretching them and triggering them like timebombs over the global political scenarios.
In any case, I am almost sure that this leaking of documents is deliberate the purpose being that of placing a honeypot out on the internet, to monitor who are those attracted by it and who will make use use of it. I obviously cannot say if the honeypot is in the hands of the italian government itself or rather of foreign forces meant to undermine it (which seems more likely). But all in all it goes to show, once again as if we needed the lesson, that nothing can and is what we are told it is by the media, and especially on the internet.
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnR8wo-1utI
TYLER is a massively distributed and decentralized Wikipedia-style P2P cipherspace structure impregnable to censorship. TYLER will improve where Wikileaks could not. In other words TYLER will be a Wikileaks on steroids
The activists reveal that on the symbolic date of November 5, TYLER will be out of beta testing and in the timeframe between December 12 and December 21, 2012, it will be put to use.
During this time, everyone who supports the movement is advised to gather as much information as they can on illegality, fraud and corruption and upload it to the new service.
Will this project be used to usher in a "new era?" Or perhaps as nonho has insinuated, used as a massive honey pot? The timeframe is coincidental at least; right around the time of the perceived 2012 eschaton...
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The energy system is exploding and in sorry shape. Heck the State Dept cannot keep the system in check with these wikileaks. Most people are eating the wrong food and overweight and getting "industrial-world" cancers, heart disease, etc. And while Rome burns we have Facebook, terrible movies, and the conspiracy farces of Wikileaks to draw our attention.
you seem to be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. 