The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Questions, speculations & updates on the techniques and nature of media fakery

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am

It seems like a lot of these bizarre conspiracies and/or parties of people involved so closely to such high-profile events are able to maintain consistency through the simple fact that people don't pay attention.

It's like America is composed of thousands of these micro-dramas of gang-plays of very few actors in them. But as soon as their attention is on one of these gangs - such as the Lange-Vannatter-Ito-Jigsaw-Simpson group - the media distracts them away to another drama. There's no time to question the rather insular group of "players" in the drama, to realize that it could all just be a play presented by the media as a spontaneous event. It's just one spectacular spectacle after another.

No wonder they can knock them out of the park so quickly; they're setting them up and knocking them down non-stop. It's like an animation production that takes 6 months to finish from start to finish, but they're running 13 of these 6-month segments in parallel so they can release them once a week as production finishes them one by one. People think it's real because actors keep reprising their roles as the same characters in each sequel.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby Libero on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:31 am

And Hoi, I will tell you this most bizarre bit of information. Although I did not personally know Vannatter, I do know people very close to me that did. And Simi Valley which you spoke of not knowing of in your Bill Kaysing writings -- well, I actually lived there for a short while. It is just outside of Spahn Ranch where the Manson thing was done, and also where the O.J trial and Rodney King trial was held. I also have already mentioned that I lived close to the Manson hideout when I was a little tot.

So, before anyone accuses me of being a shill or disinfo agent or whatever, I would like you to know that I will not fight you to prove that I am being honest as our friend astronut did (one reason why I knew he was a phony). It is also why I did not doubt the writings of MrSinclair.

I live not far from Hollywood, so I can imagine how they must screw with us all of the time, thinking... oh, it's just California... Celebrityville... just accept the weird shit as it comes and swallow it, like a good Californian should. These don't even begin to approach the ones I doubt at the more local level that I, myself, have followed my own advice and followed the court case and attorney and found out some really nutty stuff. I am numb since accepting the one simple reality that 'You should not believe everything that you see and hear.' Especially when it comes to television.

Tell me why the celebrities always end up with their mugshots on the front page? Do they not have the same rights as you or I? Do they submit a contract to become a celebrity that no matter what happens, that the police department has a right to contact the media to post their photo and tell their sorry story? Does the police department arrest Lindsay Lohan and say... hee hee... time to call the media and expose this little poor celebrity girl? Man... they are the ones with the money that could most bust the police with invasion of privacy.
Last edited by Libero on Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:04 am

I believe it. I think we all know someone connected to these kinds of schemes. The chances are high that our family or friend is involved in some way or another and we let it slide because it's just too awful to try to enjoy one another's company at a tea party when you're calling them out on their most suspicious stories.

So there it is. Cue tiny throaty, "Awwwwkwaard."

Image

I know someone who claims to have been in Manhattan on 9/11, someone who claims to have a pass to Area 51, someone who claims to have had a family member kill Osama bin Ladin, someone who claims to have been touring the Pentagon on 9/11, someone who claims to have seen "the planes" before I got them to admit they were just watching television, etc. etc. Simon thinks his brother might be selling technology to Rockwell Collins. We all experience the "threshold of the simulation" in these experiences. Of course it starts and ends with people. That's who's creating all this bullshit. It's not an alien robot from another dimension. It's people. People are fucked up.

Having said that, California does seem particularly fucked up in a special way.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby Libero on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:18 am

Edit... I decided to remove this post voluntarily (I promise... no outside influence involved :) ) . I was thinking today that it might not be fair to single out one local law enforcement agency and as it contained a lot of conjecture and ramblings anyway, I didn't want to cause alarm to anyone in event that I was not correct. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Last edited by Libero on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:36 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:05 pm

Everything in California, and all of politics, is a little crazy.

I agree with you that Americans are among the dumbest, most afraid of self-examination and most naively conformist - thinking they are original - of all people living in modern comforts, but cushioned from reality. But the fit is hitting the shan right now, so we'll see where the next decades take the country and its experience level, I suppose?
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby Libero on Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:34 pm

Yeah... perhaps not so much dumb but more so preoccupied trying to exist in the rat race. I, for one spent much of my life trying to figure out why I didn't seem to 'fit in' so much with the phoniness of society, and then this forum flipped my switch to make me understand that it is the phoniness that is guiding society and inside I must have been resisting it. I assure you I am not one bit smarter since discovering this forum... just damn awake now and actually noticing things that I never thought to even look for before.

Your comment inspired me to check the lyrics of Californication by the Red Hot Chili Peppers today to see if there was anything they were trying to say in that song that maybe I'd never heard or thought about before. Who knew that they even called foul on the space program? :D

"Space may be the final frontier
But it's made in a Hollywood basement"


http://www.lyricsondemand.com/r/redhotc ... yrics.html
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby brianv on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:24 am

Libero wrote:Yeah... perhaps not so much dumb but more so preoccupied trying to exist in the rat race. I, for one spent much of my life trying to figure out why I didn't seem to 'fit in' so much with the phoniness of society, and then this forum flipped my switch to make me understand that it is the phoniness that is guiding society and inside I must have been resisting it. I assure you I am not one bit smarter since discovering this forum... just damn awake now and actually noticing things that I never thought to even look for before.

Your comment inspired me to check the lyrics of Californication by the Red Hot Chili Peppers today to see if there was anything they were trying to say in that song that maybe I'd never heard or thought about before. Who knew that they even called foul on the space program? :D

"Space may be the final frontier
But it's made in a Hollywood basement"


http://www.lyricsondemand.com/r/redhotc ... yrics.html


viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1319#p2370389 :)

Am (Altered. Add B on the third(G), notes A,E,B,C), F (Altered. Notes F,C,G,A, play F note with thumb over the top), C,G,F,D
Bridge - (F#m, D) x2 , Bm, D, A, E

Great song to play on the Acoustic.
B)
Last edited by brianv on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby Libero on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:32 am

Look at me... late to the party again! ;) Thanks, brianv.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby MrSinclair on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:22 am

This is a very interesting topic. The site has clearly grown well beyond 911 and we are looking backwards to some powerful events and questioning their reality as well. For most people 55+ years old the idea of events like the JFK, RFK and MKL assassinations being staged events is more then they can handle even if they are acclimated to the idea of conspiracies behind these events. It is simply too destabilizing or incongruent for most to get their heads around. Just as an observation I find that those in my age group who made positive use of psychedelics in their youth are far more flexible and open-minded regarding such reality bending possibilities.

I've spent all kinds of time reading about and digging into Jonestown over the years as but one example but never did the idea of it being a faked event ever arise until coming here. It is shocking at first, provocative and more easily rejected than considered but ultimately I am hungry for the truth and open to a lot of theories presented here given the sites already mighty and undeniable track record for finding the truth hidden in plain view. What concerns me here at times is painting too much of history with a broad brush of fakery accusations rather that a more neutral search for answers. Questioning undocumented accusations of fakery should not always be greeted with hostility and a certain loss of credibility. I say this while fully supporting the vigilance this site has shown regarding shills and interlopers and with great appreciation for its adherence to high standards of expression regarding spelling and grammar.

Its true that living in say Hollywood or San Francisco easily put one up close with strange people and events far more often than in other places. In the course of living there I met murderers, porn actresses, major drug dealers, deviants , New Agers, Grateful Dead employees, Melvin Belli, Peoples Temple members, dope fiends, "AIDS" victims, Black Guerrilla Family members, Hells Angels and on and on. Now I lead a very boring existence on the east coast but my memories are amazingly clear. I was a last minute hire one year to work at Bohemian Grove amidst the elite for a few days as a valet. The fact that my roommate at the time was a former roommate of Joseph Remiro of the SLA , imprisoned for life for first degree murder of Oakland Schools Superintendent Marcus Foster should have kept me out of such a place but the security was quite lax back then. Now I am wondering as to the truth of that murder and of course the kidnapping of Patty Hearst.
What from the 60's/70's is not subject to reconsideration? I still have serious doubts about Paul McCartney for one.

Sorry to go off on a small rant here...
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:29 am

I see what you mean, Libero. I don't profess to be a professor myself. I'm just a "layman" armchair speculator. But don't dare call yourself dumb! Not unless you want to contribute to the removal of meaning from words.

We may be ignorant and we may not know much, but we're not dumb.

MrSinclair, I see what you mean about the hostility towards speculation after the initial doubt or "fakery" statements.

This is the way I see it, and you are of course free and welcome to argue against this: anyone on the Internet can create a giant imaginative theory about what goes on behind fake evidence, but it is for the most part without basis and without - well, evidence. Here on this forum, we strive to create a safe space for "no story" to exist where there doesn't appear to be one free of falsehood, so that others - elsewhere, and all across the Internet - can safely build up the real truth from a very solid foundation. In other words, the right to doubt is what we're trying to defend. Since the right to apparently broadcast one's opinion and worldview is not questioned.

Having said that, your very much respected opinion is taken. We could probably stand to be more discriminate about the ways in which we protect such freedoms. And anyway, the admins take liberties with speculation as much as the next user; we can't help it. We're only human. When someone is not fit for this forum, it doesn't mean they are liars or gatekeepers or anything like that. Sometimes, that's the case, but other times it is merely a conflict of artificial "user" personality. But I will work harder to temper my offensiveness. It comes naturally as I get older, anyway. I just don't feel insulting people "better" has much use - never really have - and I find myself less and less worked up about matters.

By the way - yes, the Paul McCartney thing. Weird weird stuff.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby Libero on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:50 pm

Thanks Hoi :) And Happy Thanksgiving to all!

MrSinclair,

Hopefully in my findings that I present, I am not coming across as too direct in trying to influence anyone either way as to what they should believe or not. I am only presenting the oddities that I notice and am leaving it up to the reader to ultimately decide if there is enough weirdness, coincidence etc. to judge within their own mind as to if a given story that we are led to be true is believable or not. Even with with my statement that I believed that each of the characters in the TruTV crime database might have false roots, it is only my feeling, and I would certainly not want or expect anyone to take my statement at face value without looking into it and processing the info on their own. I suppose in my own mind, I have convinced myself that so many of the stories that I look up on that site are so unbelievable, that there would be no reason for them to mix the real events in life with those based on fantasy. I have looked up the Wiki's of the Unabomber, the Zodiac Killer (both stories they host in their database) among others and there are victims missing from the SSDI from these events. I just looked up the story on the Miranda trial (The police must read you your rights trial) that they have posted wondering what the heck I would find, and I found that Sam Sheppard 'The Fugitive Guy ' represented once by F. Lee Bailey was one of the witnesses. Marcia Clark's case (O.J. Simpson prosecutor) that first made her famous is there that changed the way that the DMV can hand over information to investigators -- The Rebecca Schaeffer case. The serial killer that most recently admitted to the murders in the latest chapter of the O.J. Simpson saga is there. And of course it can't go without mentioning that the Jonestown and Patty Hearst stories are there.

Here's an interesting one that I have covered in this topic with a San Francisco connection... The Abigail Folger (Manson murders) story:

'Folger was born in San Francisco, California. Her parents were Peter Folger, Chairman and President of the Folger Coffee Company'

'Like her mother, Ines, who was active doing charity work with the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic in San Francisco, Folger continued to be involved with volunteer work. She registered as a volunteer for the Los Angeles County Welfare Department in September 1968. Earlier, in the spring and summer of 1968, she attended fundraisers set up by her mother to aid the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic. It was around the same time many of the Manson family women were being treated there.'


Hmm... there appears to be an earlier connection of Folger to the Manson family women. But why, if Abigail was volunteering to to help them, would they end up eventually killing her? Just as I was wondering why one of the producers of the Manson documentary would go through with its release knowing that the family killed one of his former students.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_Folger


Here's a few on Patty Hearst that caught my attention:

' Among her few close friends she counted Patricia Tobin, whose family founded the Hibernia Bank, a branch of which Hearst would later aid in robbing.'

'She appeared in a season 3 episode of Veronica Mars portraying Selma Hearst, the granddaughter of the founder of Hearst College and college board member, who had faked her own kidnapping. Although Hearst College is fictional, it strongly echoes the real Stanford family history, with the founder being a railroad tycoon rather than a media baron.'

Edit: This is a worthy mention from the Patricia Hearst Wiki as well:

'When the attempt to swap Hearst for jailed SLA members failed, the SLA demanded that the captive's family distribute $70 worth of food to every needy Californian – an operation that would cost an estimated $400 million. In response, Hearst's father arranged the immediate donation of $6 million worth of food to the poor of the Bay Area. After the distribution of food, the SLA refused to release Hearst because they deemed the food to have been of poor quality.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Hearst


And for our Thanksgiving/Kennedy special post of a celebrity attorney, lets look at the person you once met in your life -- Melvin Belli.


'Melvin Mouron Belli (July 29, 1907 – July 9, 1996)[1] was a prominent American lawyer known as "The King of Torts" and by detractors as 'Melvin Bellicose'. He had many celebrity clients, including Zsa Zsa Gabor, Errol Flynn, Chuck Berry, Muhammad Ali, the Rolling Stones, Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye Bakker, Martha Mitchell, Lana Turner, Tony Curtis, and Mae West. He won over USD $600,000,000 in judgments during his legal career.[2]'

'Belli appeared in numerous films and television shows, frequently as himself, and was played by Brian Cox in the 2007 film Zodiac (Belli received a letter from the Zodiac Killer in 1969).'

'Belli enjoyed his frequent television and movie appearances; in 1965, he told an interviewer for Playboy that he "might have been an actor" if he had not become an attorney.'

'In his best-known case, Belli represented Jack Ruby, for free, after Ruby shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald.'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_Belli
Last edited by Libero on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby MrSinclair on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:13 am

The SSDI seems more and more to represent a line of demarcation in our speculations here. An allegedly deceased individual is either in or not in it and from this we draw conclusions. I am not saying this is right or wrong, I don't know enough about it. Given the wide powers of those able to stage an event like 9/11 it would seem they could manipulate this index as well if need be but perhaps not.

As to my criticisms/observations of the site they are offered humbly and with the greatest respect to many participants here. I find this site maintains very high standards in carrying out some extremely difficult tasks. The amount of information offered only here is truly staggering and the zealous protectors of its integrity have my thanks, I might still be stuck with my head up the ass of Rense.com otherwise. :puke:

Melvin Belli might be the most physically revolting human being I ever met, this would have been around 1988 when I had a small computer business in San Francisco and his law office contacted us about some add ons to their Wang VS system. The law office was in a former bordello building near North Beach. Melvin wore very expensive suits and looked like Jabba the Hut after a visit to Savile Row. Mostly I dealt with his son Ceaser who had photos of himself with various Popes on the wall of his office. The sale eventually fell through when my partner and I extended no payment terms to them, like we would be dumb enough to let people that morally bankrupt owe us money. Belli was the personification of sleaze and one of the creepiest and larger than life characters I've ever met.

One thing seems certain, the overall naivety of even the paranoid and conspiracy oriented types of the 60's/70's types ensures that if any of the pivotal events were staged we would have collectively been quite easy to fool. I've talked to, read and listened to all kinds of conspiracy theorists of events from this era but with the exception of the Apollo Program their reality was never questioned. I'm willing to consider anything at this point, that the deaths of JFK, RFK and MLK were faked as was Jonestown and other events from this period and earlier.

Interesting that today would be the 49th anniversary of JFK's assassination if it indeed is real. I offer this song that was an AM radio hit in my youth to commemorate the event.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO-WJrCH-mg
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby lux on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:48 am

In reference to the SSDI -- I've just discovered the SSA has another database called the SSDMF (Death Master File).

Earlier this year the Nov 20, 2011 edition of this database was put online for free download here:
http://ssdmf.info/

I don't know if the data in the SSDI and SSDMF is the same.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby Libero on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:23 am

If ever there was a court case that looks to have "jumped the shark" of reality, it appears to be going on right now in Arizona -- the Jodi Arias trial. Here are some of the background details...


From TruTV link:

"Jodi Arias, a 32-year-old photographer charged with the 2008 murder of her boyfriend, Travis Alexander. The 30-year-old man’s body, found in the shower of his Mesa home, told a story of a brutal end to a promising life. The motivational speaker and insurance salesman had been stabbed 27 times, shot in the face, and his throat was slit from ear to ear.

"They started dating, and Arias moved from California to Arizona to be with him. She was baptized in the Church of Latter Day Saints because Alexander was a Mormon"

"On June 4, Arias allegedly visited him in Mesa. The two allegedly had sex, and took nude photos. These photos were allegedly found on a camera that had been run through the washing machine, along with photos of Alexander “bleeding profusely,” according to police. Worried friends who hadn’t heard from Alexander for several days went to his home on June 9 and found blood throughout the residence and his dead body in the shower. The friends told police to question Arias."

"According to court records, Arias originally told police that two people had broken in and killed Alexander, but later said she killed him in self defense."


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0PN2QJlqus

Oh... and she recently won a caroling contest for Inmates held by "America's Toughest Sheriff," Joe Arpaio, at the Maricopa County jail.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhC30VN39z0



http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/blog ... index.html

http://www.hlntv.com/clusters/jodi-arias?hpt=hln10_2

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/j ... s-18186608

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... ical-liar/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1 ... 75746.html


All of the tabloid-type internet sites are all over this one. To me, this one seems to be so ridiculous, that they seemingly want people to call them on it. The good news is that the more mainstream sources are also covering, so perhaps this may be a good one to wake others up to.
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Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:31 pm

lux wrote:In reference to the SSDI -- I've just discovered the SSA has another database called the SSDMF (Death Master File).

Earlier this year the Nov 20, 2011 edition of this database was put online for free download here:
http://ssdmf.info/

I don't know if the data in the SSDI and SSDMF is the same.


I'll venture to say that yes they are the same.
The person I had mentioned in a much earlier post of mine, who is definitely deceased, whose widow has received the social security death benefit ($255), is still not listed in either index.
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