Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby Evil Edna on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:44 am

Hi, Simon, I have witnessed a few "ISS" flyovers. The last one I saw (2012, iirc) was unusual** - insofar as there were actually two visible flyovers within an hour of each other. The media reported it as unusual which is what prompted me to go outside (twice) to check on it. I literally walked no further than the street outside and, even under the powerful street lights, the "ISS" was still very much visible on both flyovers. The NEAs, by contrast, could never be seen under the same urban conditions; lost to unaided sight because of their much lower light intensity. I appreciate what you're saying but I do still struggle, admittedly as a stargazing rookie, to see what else, other than those differing light intensities, distinguishes the "ISS" from the NEAs. Is there any way you could further clarify (to a rookie) exactly how they differ? Their altitudes above the local horizon, and the apparent speed of motion across the sky of some of the NEAs don't seem very different (at least not to me) to those observed "ISS" flyovers. Could it be a perception issue that low-light intensity NEAs just appear much further away, and maybe they are, comparatively? The "ISS" is perhaps still millions of miles away, but closer than all other NEAs by several/many magnitudes? That's the depth of my sincere if amateur observation!

** EDIT: It seems that "double flyovers" of the "ISS" are not that uncommon. There was apparently a visible "double flyover" very recently (7 August 2014) when, from the same earthly view-point in England, the "ISS" thingy could be observed twice in 93 minutes:

Image
DOUBLE FLYOVER

How could the double-flyover be achieved using a "decoy" - a conventional high-altitude aircraft? Three possibilities, maybe? (i) use two decoys, the second following in close succession. (ii) turn the decoy round very sharply and fly the same/similar path twice; (would that be disguisable?) or (iii) fly the decoy all the way round the world (which doesn't see feasible in the time available) -- for the 'decoy' to do that in 93 minutes it would have to fly round the world at a speed of ~25,000 km/h.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby simonshack on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:58 pm

Evil Edna wrote: I appreciate what you're saying but I do still struggle, admittedly as a stargazing rookie, to see what else, other than those differing light intensities, distinguishes the "ISS" from the NEAs. Is there any way you could further clarify (to a rookie) exactly how they differ? Their altitudes above the local horizon, and the apparent speed of motion across the sky of some of the NEAs don't seem very different (at least not to me) to those observed "ISS" flyovers.


I will gladly clarify. Let me first point out that, from the hill where I live now (over the glare of Rome's city lights) I have hardly ever seen a NEA. My best 'expertise' as a keen sky-gazer goes back to my childhood / teenage days in Norway - where I've spent most of my life's summer holidays. As a kid (early seventies) I spent many nights picking out with my naked eyes NEA after NEA - in the gloriously crisp & clear Norwegian night skies. On the top of my head (pun intended), I'd estimate that I saw a NEA fly-by at intervals of max 5/10 minutes or so - on a constant/ regular basis. So, these were by no means rare sightings. The NEA's are always fainter than stars - and they are only rarely visible at lower elevations. The appearance of the "ISS" is radically different from any NEA observations - for the following reasons:

- The "ISS" can actually be clearly seen at twilight (i.e. BEFORE dusk)- coming at you from relatively low elevations (known as "declination" in astronomy terms) - and disappearing 'behind' you, much like a commercial airliner. Back in June (I think June the 21st) this year, I saw it passing over my house at 9:33 pm across a still dark-blue sky, while not a single star was yet visible in the sky. On that occasion, a commercial airplane (with its strobing red and green navigation lights) actually flew by in the opposite direction of the "ISS" - and the two of them crossed their paths right above me. I really wish I'd filmed that, with some top-end camera equipment - to show how the "ISS" looked like just another aircraft flying at a different altitude than that commercial airliner.

- The "ISS" shines stronger than any object in the sky - and its brightness (stronger than any other celestial object, including commercial airplane's navigation lights) and its intensity slightly grows and fades - pretty much like airplane lights do. As explained in my above posts, if the "ISS" travels at NASA's claimed speed of 28.000km/h, this would mean that I can see the "ISS" (as it appears and disappears) - from a distance of 1500km. And yes, I suppose NASA would say that the (strong / steady and non-flickering) light it emits is caused by sunlight bouncing off / being reflected by its solar panels. To be sure, no "flood lights" are claimed to be carried by the "ISS".


****************************************************

But here is a far more puzzling issue I have with the "ISS" fly-overs. See, in all of my sightings of the "Thing" (admittedly only a dozen or so), it has flown right across my entire skyline - in a straight line and roughly-speaking, from West to East (and all variations thereof). Yet, in the data supplied by NASA's Spot-the-Station e-mail alert service, I can find a number of fly-overs such as this (from April 19 of this year, which I unfortunately missed due to cloudy skies) :

Time: Sat Apr 19 (2014) 10:06 PM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 55 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NW

"Appears NW - and disappears NW" ??? How is that possible? Does this mean I would see the "ISS" performing some sort of U-TURN in the sky?

Oddly, this "U-TURN" has occurred only once this year, but in 2013, it occurred on 14 occasions. Here is the FULL LIST of "ISS" Rome fly-overs in 2013 (compiled from the messages sent to my e-mail inbox by NASA's "Spot-the-Station" service). The ones highlighted in red are what I will henceforth (and for the sake of our discussion) call the "U-TURN FLYOVERS":

List of 2013 "ISS" fly-bys over Rome, ITALY

Time: Sat Dec 28 5:26 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 74 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Fri Dec 27 6:14 PM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 64 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SE
Time: Wed Dec 25 6:14 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 48 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sat Dec 14 5:25 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 66 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: NE
Time: Fri Dec 13 6:13 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 42 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: N
Time: Thu Dec 12 5:24 PM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 44 degrees, Appears: SSW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Wed Dec 11 6:13 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 79 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Thu Nov 28 5:43 AM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 87 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: SE
Time: Wed Nov 27 6:30 AM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 49 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SSE
Time: Mon Nov 25 6:31 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 60 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: E
Time: Fri Nov 15 5:00 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 40 degrees, Appears: NE, Disappears: NE
Time: Thu Nov 14 5:46 AM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 47 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue Nov 12 5:45 AM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 65 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Mon Oct 28 5:50 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 81 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SE
Time: Sun Oct 27 6:40 PM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 46 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: SSE
Time: Sat Oct 26 6:49 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 40 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: E
Time: Fri Oct 25 7:37 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 62 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Tue Oct 08 8:18 PM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 50 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: S
Time: Wed Oct 02 5:14 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 50 degrees, Appears: ESE, Disappears: ESE
Time: Tue Oct 01 6:00 AM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 58 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SE
Time: Sun Sep 29 6:00 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 53 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: E
Time: Mon Sep 16 5:17 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 57 degrees, Appears: SSW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sun Sep 15 6:03 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 81 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Aug 24 8:48 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 60 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: SE
Time: Thu Aug 22 8:49 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 52 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Wed Aug 21 9:37 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 85 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Sun Aug 18 10:27PM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 40 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NNW
Time: Tue Aug 06 4:11 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 48 degrees, Appears: SSE, Disappears: SE
Time: Mon Aug 05 9:38 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 60 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sun Aug 04 10:27PM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 78 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Aug 03 4:56 AM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 80 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Wed Jul 24 3:22 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 57 degrees, Appears: N, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue Jul 23 4:08 AM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 40 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: NNE
Time: Sun Jul 21 4:09 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 83 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sat Jul 20 4:55 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 59 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NNE
Time: Thu Jul 18 4:55 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 50 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: E
Time: Mon Jun 24 9:14 PM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 41 degrees, Appears: SSW, Disappears: SSE
Time: Sat Jun 22 9:14 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 70 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Fri Jun 21/10:02 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 67 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SE
Time: Wed Jun 19/10:03 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 46 degrees, Appears: NNW, Disappears: E
Time: Tue Jun 18/10:51 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 77 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Mon Jun 17/11:39 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 58 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: W
Time: Sat Jun 15/11:42 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 51 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NNE
Time: Sat Jun 15 0:30 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 83 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NW
Time: Fri Jun 14 1:19 AM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 51 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: WNW

Time: Wed Jun 12 1:20 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 58 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NW
Time: Tue Jun 11 2:09 AM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 79 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: WNW
Time: Sun Jun 09 2:11 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 41 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Jun 08 9:19 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 56 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Jun 08 3:00 AM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 66 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Fri Jun 07 3:49 AM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 71 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SE
Time: Thu Jun 06 9:20 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 53 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Wed Jun 05/10:09 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 84 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: NE
Time: Wed Jun 05 3:50 AM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 45 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Tue Jun 04/10:58 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 50 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue Jun 04 4:39 AM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 75 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Sun Jun 02/11:05 PM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 60 degrees, Appears: ENE, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sat Jun 01/11:54 PM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 74 degrees, Appears: NE, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Jun 01 0:43 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 45 degrees, Appears: NE, Disappears: NE
Time: Wed May 29 1:33 AM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 66 degrees, Appears: NE, Disappears: NE

Time: Tue May 28 2:20 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 41 degrees, Appears: NNE, Disappears: NE
Time: Sun May 26 2:22 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 76 degrees, Appears: ENE, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sat May 25 3:09 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 60 degrees, Appears: NNW, Disappears: NE
Time: Thu May 23 3:11 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 49 degrees, Appears: ESE, Disappears: ENE
Time: Wed May 22 3:58 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 87 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue May 21 4:45 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 55 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NNE
Time: Sun May 19 4:46 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 55 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: E
Time: Wed Apr 24 8:44 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 80 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Tue Apr 23 9:34 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 55 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: S
Time: Sun Apr 21 9:39 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 58 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sat Apr 20/10:29 PM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 76 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: WNW
Time: Thu Apr 18/10:34 PM, Visible: < 1 min, Max Height: 43 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: NW

Time: Thu Apr 11 8:23 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 55 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue Apr 09 8:25 PM, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 59 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Mon Apr 08 9:15 PM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 76 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Sun Apr 07/10:06 PM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 44 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: W
Time: Sat Apr 06 9:20 PM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 40 degrees, Appears: SSW, Disappears: SSW
Time: Thu Apr 04 4:46 AM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 61 degrees, Appears: ENE, Disappears: ESE
Time: Wed Apr 03 5:34 AM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 73 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SE
Time: Mon Apr 01 5:37 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 46 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Sun Mar 31 6:28 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 79 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Thu Mar 21 4:14 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 42 degrees, Appears: NNE, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue Mar 19 4:20 AM, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 79 degrees, Appears: ENE, Disappears: ENE
Time: Mon Mar 18 5:09 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 54 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Mar 16 5:13 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 60 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: ENE
Time: Tue Feb 26 6:55 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 50 degrees, Appears: W, Disappears: SE
Time: Sun Feb 24 6:57 PM, Visible: 5 min, Max Height: 64 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
Time: Sat Feb 23 7:49 PM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 52 degrees, Appears: WNW, Disappears: WNW
Time: Mon Feb 11 6:41 PM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 65 degrees, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Sat Feb 09 6:44 PM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 49 degrees, Appears: SW, Disappears: E
Time: Wed Jan 30 5:42 AM, Visible: 3 min, Max Height: 65 degrees, Appears: SSW, Disappears: SE
Time: Mon Jan 28 5:45 AM, Visible: 2 min, Max Height: 51 degrees, Appears: N, Disappears: E
Time: Sun Jan 27 6:33 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 87 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: SE


Now, If you ask me: "have you personally witnessed any of these "U-TURN FLYOVERS"? Well, unfortunately only once to this day (and ONLY PARTIALLY) - on June 2, 2013. As usual, I was out in my garden looking in the correct, announced direction (ENE) of the "ISS" appearance (and with my clock/stopwatch in my hand). Just as I was about to give up - as the "ISS" was seemingly 'running late' - the "ISS" light suddenly appeared out of nowhere in my East-North-East skyline - and proceeded to fly AWAY from me for 30 seconds or so - before disappearing. In other words, I never saw its announced ENE appearance - only its ENE disappearance.

Go figure. I will keep you posted about any future "U-TURN" sightings of mine. But one thing is for sure: the "ISS" is no NEA (Near-Earth Asteroid).
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Re: Satellites : general discussion and musings

Unread postby tak47 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:19 am

simonshack wrote:Just ask yourself this question: WHY would the ISS at times be visible (from my vantage point in Rome) for 1 minute only - and at other times for as many as 6 minutes - if the "Thing" is constantly orbiting at about 330 / 410km of altitude, as claimed by NASA ?


i asked myself the same question some time ago and there's a pretty simple answer:

if the iss (or whatever) is visible less than ~6 minutes (complete journey from horizon to horizon) it's because the iss is covered in earth's shadow.

Image

Now, If you ask me: "have you personally witnessed any of these "U-TURN FLYOVERS"? Well, unfortunately only once to this day (and ONLY PARTIALLY) - on June 2, 2013. As usual, I was out in my garden looking in the correct, announced direction (ENE) of the "ISS" appearance (and with my clock/stopwatch in my hand). Just as I was about to give up - as the "ISS" was seemingly 'running late' - the "ISS" light suddenly appeared out of nowhere in my East-North-East skyline - and proceeded to fly AWAY from me for 30 seconds or so - before disappearing. In other words, I never saw its announced ENE appearance - only its ENE disappearance.

Go figure. I will keep you posted about any future "U-TURN" sightings of mine. But one thing is for sure: the "ISS" is no NEA (Near-Earth Asteroid).


the iss obviously won't do u-turns. :D

check this page out: http://iss.de.astroviewer.net/beobachtung.php?name=Rom

here you can see your viewing radius and whether iss is in earth's shadow (blue line) or visible (red line). if the visibile part is short enough the appearance/disappearance direction will be the same.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby simonshack on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:11 pm

Evil Edna wrote:Image
DOUBLE FLYOVER


EE,

Since we do not live too far apart (UK versus Italy) in terms of the alleged hypersonic speed of the “ISS” (28.000km/h), we should both be able to witness any given “ISS” flyover at roughly the same time of day, literally within minutes of each other. In fact, at that speed, the “ISS” would need no more than 3 minutes to cover the London-Rome flight distance:

Image


So, I picked a date (August, 3 - 2014) from your above list of "ISS - VISIBLE PASSES" and compared it to one witnessed by myself - here in Rome - that same morning :

August 3, 2014 flyover (in Rome) Time: Sun Aug 03 4:19 AM(Rome time), Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 75 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
August 3, 2014 flyover (in the UK) Time: Sun Aug 03 5:32 AM (or 6:32 AM Rome time), Visible: Appears: N, Disappears: NE

Time gap between above Rome vs UK flyovers : 133 minutes :blink:

Now, considering that the "ISS" is supposed to orbit earth once every 93 minutes, and if we are to presume that the above Rome / UK "ISS" passes represented two different / successive orbits of the "thingy", we still have a forty-minute (or so) discrepancy. How can this be explained?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby Evil Edna on Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:47 pm

simonshack wrote:Since we do not live too far apart (UK versus Italy) in terms of the alleged hypersonic speed of the “ISS” (28.000km/h), we should both be able to witness any given “ISS” flyover at roughly the same time of day, literally within minutes of each other. In fact, at that speed, the “ISS” would need no more than 3 minutes to cover the London-Rome flight distance:
....

So, I picked a date (August, 3 - 2014) from your above list of "ISS - VISIBLE PASSES" and compared it to one witnessed by myself - here in Rome - that same morning :

August 3, 2014 flyover (in Rome) Time: Sun Aug 03 4:19 AM(Rome time), Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 75 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
August 3, 2014 flyover (in the UK) Time: Sun Aug 03 5:32 AM (or 6:32 AM Rome time), Visible: Appears: N, Disappears: NE

Time gap between above Rome vs UK flyovers : 133 minutes :blink:

Now, considering that the "ISS" is supposed to orbit earth once every 93 minutes, and if we are to presume that the above Rome / UK "ISS" passes represented two different / successive orbits of the "thingy", we still have a forty-minute (or so) discrepancy. How can this be explained?


Oh well done! You've finally busted the I$$ hoax for me, Simon! You're right: it must be a conventional high-altitude aircraft, doing a scheduled flyover, like some overhead exhibit at an airshow.

My mistake in thinking otherwise was assuming the lazy schmucks at NA$A had just commandeered the brightest Near Earth Asteroid (NEA), and renamed it the "I$$". And probably if they'd stuck with that - a relatively simple fraud - to pull off their billion-buck swindle - it would have remained largely undetected.

But what with those double flyovers within 93 minutes, and dramatic U-turns in the sky, and - as you've just highlighted, those impossible paths between London and Rome - quite impossible for something supposedly whizzing along at 28,000km/h - at that speed, it's never going to enjoy the turning circle of a mini cooper - the hoax is truly holed below the water line!
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby simonshack on Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:01 am

*

Before proceeding, and so as to keep the flow of this debate clear for all readers, I would like to hear our German member "tak47"'s opinion about (or even possible explanation of) the above "133 minutes - Rome/ UK" issue. Thanks ! :)
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby tak47 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:52 am

simonshack wrote:*

Before proceeding, and so as to keep the flow of this debate clear for all readers, I would like to hear our German member "tak47"'s opinion about (or even possible explanation of) the above "133 minutes - Rome/ UK" issue. Thanks ! :)


don't get me wrong simon, i'm a big 'fan' of your research/movies but i think you are trying to find some clues here where there aren't any. i've been observing this white/yellow dot in the night sky for quite some time and it really is accurate regarding its flight path/speed. (but obviously i don't know WHAT exactly is 'flying' up there)

explanation for the 40 minutes discrepancy:

the usual flight path looks like this: (shifting horizontally towards east all the time, the vertical path stays pretty much the same i think)

Image (source: http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/HDEV/)

so the iss does not take the shortest way (parallel to the equator) but goes "up and down" towards north and south. (don't ask me why)

therefore it can reach the same area later after an orbit. (white arrow on the screenshot)

P.S.: english is not my first language but i hope you understand what i mean. :P
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby Seneca on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:03 am

That doesn't explain the 40 minutes discrepancy tak47. In 40 minutes it should have traveled to the other side of the earth.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:28 am

tak47 wrote:so the iss does not take the shortest way (parallel to the equator) but goes "up and down" towards north and south. (don't ask me why)

Orbital views:
Image
from heavens-above.com
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby Seneca on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:48 pm

simonshack wrote:
Evil Edna wrote:Image
DOUBLE FLYOVER


EE,

Since we do not live too far apart (UK versus Italy) in terms of the alleged hypersonic speed of the “ISS” (28.000km/h), we should both be able to witness any given “ISS” flyover at roughly the same time of day, literally within minutes of each other. In fact, at that speed, the “ISS” would need no more than 3 minutes to cover the London-Rome flight distance:

Image


So, I picked a date (August, 3 - 2014) from your above list of "ISS - VISIBLE PASSES" and compared it to one witnessed by myself - here in Rome - that same morning :

August 3, 2014 flyover (in Rome) Time: Sun Aug 03 4:19 AM(Rome time), Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 75 degrees, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE
August 3, 2014 flyover (in the UK) Time: Sun Aug 03 5:32 AM (or 6:32 AM Rome time), Visible: Appears: N, Disappears: NE

Time gap between above Rome vs UK flyovers : 133 minutes :blink:

Now, considering that the "ISS" is supposed to orbit earth once every 93 minutes, and if we are to presume that the above Rome / UK "ISS" passes represented two different / successive orbits of the "thingy", we still have a forty-minute (or so) discrepancy. How can this be explained?


Simon, I think Evil Edna didn't give you the data for the UK.
He probably didn't enter the location and the data shown were for the location 0°, 0°. That was what happened when I first visited http://www.heavens-above.com. To view this you have to delete the cookies because the site remembers what you entered.

Here is what I get without entering a location, it differs a few seconds from what Evil Edna posted


Gebruiker: anonymous
Locatie: Unspecified
(0,0000°N, 0,0000°O)
Tijd: 12:47:19
(UTC+00:00) .

Datum Helderheid Begin Hoogste punt Einde Passage type
(mag.) Tijd Hoogte Azim. Tijd Hoogte Azim. Tijd Hoogte Azim.
07 aug -0,1 3:59:28 15° ONO 3:59:28 15° ONO 4:00:43 10° O zichtbaar
07 aug -1,5 5:32:58 10° W 5:34:59 15° ZW 5:37:00 10° ZZW zichtbaar
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby simonshack on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:54 pm

tak47 wrote:explanation for the 40 minutes discrepancy:

the usual flight path looks like this: (shifting horizontally towards east all the time, the vertical path stays pretty much the same i think)

Thanks for helping out, tak47 - much appreciated! Not sure you've cleared things up for me, though...

Yes, I was aware of the sinusoidal / 'serpentine' path (or 'orbit' - as NASA calls it) of the "Thing". Still trying to wrap my head around it - and will have to get back to you about that later. However, as you will see in my first two screenshots below, the "Thing's" path seems to be drifting gradually WEST (not towards EAST, as you stated).


Right now, I am trying to get hold of Juan, a good friend of mine who lives below Barcelona, Spain - and here's why:

Tonight (at 8:07:54 PM), I will be able to observe the "Thing" again, from ROME - for a good 5min20sec. Its indicated path passes right over my friend Juan :

Image


But apparently, TONIGHT Juan will not be able to see it at all. The "Thing" will be visible to him tomorrow though :

Image


(removed my erroneous Marrakesh maps - sorry chaps, got mixed up with the Time Zones for a minute there...)
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:06 pm

simonshack wrote:Yes, I was aware of the sinusoidal / 'serpentine' path (or 'orbit' - as NASA calls it) of the "Thing". Still trying to wrap my head around it - and will have to get back to you about that later.

I'm thinking you didn't get to look at my post before making this remark. The diagram I posted clearly shows that the (alleged) orbit is not along a latitudinal route, but closer to 45 degrees toward a longitudinal direction, which means the "space"craft is still flying in an orbital (non-zigzag) fashion while the earth turns beneath it.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby Seneca on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:19 pm

For some reason It is 1 hour earlier in Marrakesh then in Rome, not later as we would expect.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/morocco/marrakech

8:07 CEST (rome)= 6:07 UTC
8:42 WEST(marrakesh)= 7:42 UTC

the thing is visible in marrakesh 95 minutes later then in Rome.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby tak47 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:31 pm

simonshack wrote:But apparently, TONIGHT Juan will not be able to see it at all. The "Thing" will be visible to him tomorrow though :


it won't be dark enough yet in barcelona.. (thanks HonestlyNow) :D

simonshack wrote:Now, here's where it gets .. well, outright batshit crazy (unless you'll be able to clear this up for me! Surely, I MUST be missing something ???).
See, tonight (at 7:42PM / ROME time), people in Marrakesh (Morocco) will be able to observe the "Thing" flying right over their city - 25 minutes EARLIER THAN MYSELF :

Image

What on Earth in the Sky is going on here ???


your mistake: 8:42 PM WEST = 9:42 PM CEST (not 7:42)

those are two different flyovers.
Last edited by tak47 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:31 pm

Simon --
What I'm gathering from looking at my own location data, and clicking "all passes," is that daylight passes are counted as not visible. So your friend won't see the pass of which you speak because there's too much daylight at his location.
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