THE "CHATBOX"

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby Observer on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:21 am

If I see the glowing cigarette butt of a fake, electronic cigarette in the back of the magician's pocket, in a LIVE performance, that means the magician simply fucked up. Yes.

If I see the glowing cigarette butt of a fake, electronic cigarette in the back of the magician's pocket, in a movie which the magician had YEARS to privately edit/refine/recheck before release, I would think, "During the magician's YEARS of privately editing/refining/rechecking together with his assistants, the magician and/or his assistants would DEFINITELY notice that glowing fuck-up BEFORE releasing the damn video to the public, right?"

I am definitely NOT saying "If it were manufactured they would have done a better job!" C'mon. Please don't claim that bro.

I am saying "They DEFINITELY manufactured this movie so they DEFINITELY watched it many times BEFORE broadcast, right?"

So you think the majority of the "glowing cigarettes" are things they did NOT notice before broadcast, and thus it seems you also think they are scared of the million man march that probably will occur when say, 10 million humans watch SeptemberClues2.

I think the majority of the "glowing cigarettes" are things they MUST have noticed before broadcast, and I think they are somehow trying to GOAD humanity into a weak UNSUCCESSFUL revolution attempt, which will immediately allow them to respond with their worldwide lockdown plans.

But EITHER WAY, we both agree that the 7 billion humans (suffering by the mere fact that we don't own a kilometer of arable land each) need to create a strong SUCCESSFUL revolution!

I understand you don't like my joke about the ludicrously impossible idea of "If we can't find the actual perps at the top of the pyramid to kill them, let's create a peace bomb that gets everybody high for 7 minutes, hopefully that will include the actual perps as well, if they breathe the same air we do. If we can't kill them, let's try to change their minds by forcing a consciousness change on them."

(Actually, one problem with this is they are already probably hiding kilometers underground with WELL filtered air intakes, the other problem is that obviously there is NO way to dose the entire world at once, and the most important problem as you pointed out is that this involves FORCING 7 billion INNOCENT people to have a 7 minute trip they didn't agree to. That's consciousness RAPE. I agree. It would be immoral, and again, impossible. It's an outrageous out-of-the-box joke, to spark a better, actually doable idea.)

Here are 2 serious, realistic, moral ideas:

#1 - Kill the bank parasites dead, by NEVER putting any money into them.
How? Do what I do already, have your employer pay you in CASH each month.

#2 - Kill the government parasites dead, by reducing (to as close to zero as possible) income-tax payments, by avoiding money.
How? Do what I plan to do: start producing your OWN food/products/services, which you TRADE for others' food/products/services.

So again, what ARE some more realistic, moral, ways to SUCCESSFULLY grab back the earth's resources from the 100 humans currently owning it?

I really don't think we should be arguing about whether they want us to know they are punching us or not.

We agree they ARE punching us.

WHAT are we going to do about it?

WHAT are we going to do to stop them from punching us anymore?

WHAT are some good (realistic & moral) ideas to create a SUCCESSFUL revolution which leads to the increase of equality and peace?
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby pov603 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:25 am

In keeping with the posts above please consider the following.
A few years ago in the UK, they launched the new 'MINI' motorcar and ran a series of ads promoting it.
There was one particular ad which I really disliked [for some strange reason] and remarked as much to a colleague.
He simply replied 'they're not aiming it at you' and it was only then that I realized that they [the MINI manufacturers] had no concerns about my misgivings with the ad and/or my connection with the product as their target audience was 'larger' and elsewhere.
TPTB are most likely aiming at the next generation(s) the current ones of which have already been 'marked' by the events and legacy of 11/Sep'01 and can ride out any criticism or evidence that is presented by the likes of CF.
In a similar way, Manchester United FC are still inextricably linked with the Munich air disaster of 1958 in which are large number of the team ['Busby's Babes'] perished along with other passengers/crew.
Even to this day there is a feeling that MUFC get treated differently/leniently in some regards possibly due to this 'pity' felt due to an event nearly 70 years ago.
In the same way the USA [and/or TPTB] will reap the 'rewards' for years to come due to the images portrayed from that day now 'imprinted' on most peoples' minds.
Any 'mistakes' that may or may not have been intentional will simply become irrelevant [if almost the case already after 14 years] in the future and will become 'lost' in the mists of time.
It will go from a 'smoking gun' to a 'smoking cigarette' to an 'electronic cigarette' to an 'electronic glitch' to a 'minor glitch' to being 'so minor, it's not worth considering' probably within our lifetimes.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:16 am

I agree, pov.

Observer, I am just asking you to follow your own logic and re-examine your thinking as you have done before. You seem staunchly convinced that you know how it was done.

Let's consider your circular reasoning:

  • Assumption: the perps want people to wake up
  • Therefore, they included mistakes in 9/11 on purpose.
  • Therefore, all mistakes across the entire history of falsified events must be easy to catch and placed there on purpose.
  • Therefore, many millions will soon march through the streets demanding change (something we can actually hope for), but only due to a secret nefarious plan to wake people up "badly" (unexplained) which can only be credited to those who made these so-called "deliberate mistakes" (unproven).
  • Therefore, the change will be ineffective (you give no explanation as to why).
    [insert leap from tenuous branch of logic with no explanation to sweeping condemnation of any change]
  • Therefore, any change we want because we notice fakery is wrong.
  • Therefore, the perps want people to wake up to fakery.
  • Repeat

You also offer us one "safe path" away from this by saying we should "revolt" and you prompt us to give you all the ways a community should "properly" revolt in your eyes. I wonder if you aren't someone here to gather and judge just that kind of information, sir or madam or whatever you are. Of course people can deinvest from lame institutions. We talk of this all the time. Nice way to sound sort of supportive of the forum, anyway.

Now, let's compare your loopy perspective to the logic of the forum thusfar and see if there isn't a more scientific, less paranoid, less defeatist way to think about matters.

  • Gaffes and impossibilities have been found in the 9/11 footage, which prove TV fakery was employed to falsify events.
  • These gaffes were not noticed by millions of people, perhaps they went unnoticed by a billion people, and yet our small forum has succeeded in pointing out the physical impossibilities rationally and calmly, and better than all the false "truth" movements set up to divert people's attention from the facts of TV fakery.
  • The false truth movements constantly work to infiltrate our forum, pose as supportive enthusiastic "lovers of truth" and "brothers in arms" while discrediting, smearing, attacking and otherwise trying to undermine the discoveries.
  • Methods of discrediting the discoveries have been numerous, from a variety of different sounding trolls, including but not limited to:
    - claiming the mistakes are not worthy of attention because they are actually "real evidence" of secret space-age technologies
    - claiming the mistakes are not worthy of attention because they have been brought up by "crazy people", or by Simon (who is actually also myself) and who is actually employed by a covert organization like the Vatican or Zionists or something else Simon has always consistently disavowed, or else it's claimed that we are fictional people (truly an attempt to turn the "vicsim" discoveries on their head)
    - claiming the mistakes are only worthy of attention because they are actually hypnotic, occult magic with a deeper meaning that we must decode into their constituent parts and gain secret occult knowledge from
    - claiming the mistakes are not worthy of attention because we unconsciously "consented" to the false news (thereby implying the mistakes are part of a delicious source of knowledge we want more and more of — a truly psychotic claim of some "researchers")

    — and now (though, this is actually a very old and tired argument, often from the so-called "newly awakened" who have sometimes gone on to attack the forum and its members) —

    - claiming the mistakes are not worthy of attention because we were meant to find them, and therefore pointing out the media's weaknesses is actually a manifestation of our own weakness! (An arguably very "New Agey" or very defeatist position, depending on how you look at it.)
    - and what's more, we should really be concentrating on a concerted "revolution" of some kind while we stop talking about the mistakes, about the vast cover up or about any of the above efforts to distract people from an opportunity to learn to find the mistakes as their technology improves and the mistakes become increasingly difficult to catch.
  • However, despite all these distracting philosophies and all our self-professed "friends" and "fans" derailing conversations with them, we continue to be the lone place on the Internet actually coming together to dismantle the news' CGI/software's most obvious technological flaws.
  • The trolls keep coming and trying to stop this; they try to change the conversation to any of the above distractions, but it doesn't work. Genuinely curious people generally wake up over time, they enrich their communities through their awareness and through the self-empowering practice of using their senses and reason to resist hypnotic psychological attacks played at them through the TV and Hollywood, and things improve naturally with time (or they do not) as they are meant to.


So, you (and I hope everyone reading this) should note that you, Observer, are only playing on "the winning side" while slapping it in the face, claiming we are it and that the "nose out" footage was covered up by FOX because they wanted people to notice it was covered up. How could you even hold such a position if CluesForum didn't exist? On what would you base the fact that people are finding the mistakes?

Could you even think of 100 people that know for certain that the cover up of the "nose out" occurred? — that if it weren't for Simon, how it would have been documented at all? Do you expect the "failed revolution" that the thugs "planned all along" to be led by yourself? Do you want CluesForum members to tell you everything?

The mistakes shouldn't be there in the first place because lying CGI-generated news claiming to be telling the unbridled truth is wrong! It's as wrong as mass-drugging the population with your hallucinogen of choice, and your position of suggesting these things is offensive to everything we have tried to encourage for five years. We want people to research for themselves, think for themselves, do what they want with the empowering knowledge that the perps are not omnipotent beings. Which they certainly are not.

You provide a pathetic and saddened doom-porn message. With your Alex Jones "prison scenario" and so on. Your kind of thinking is just one unfortunate result of a larger population's freethinking and hopefully waking up to more than your brand of paranoia. There may be more people like you or Pshea re-training themselves to use their own senses and good for you. But presently I truly dread your sort making a "revolt" that you would want to lead. You have no hope for people, you offer no tools. A "pied piper" position is the claim that we should ignore the tools that we — the people — have actually built for ourselves and ignore that we have accomplished something against the onslaught of lies — something of our own volition. That you would call us all "saps" or "gullible" for thinking otherwise is truly the opposite message we intend to send, and it isn't true. Not of me. Not of Simon. Not of many other legit researchers who have strained and exercised anew to learn new useful skills in detecting propaganda lies that previously were deceptive to the public but are no longer.

Do you plan to continue to play the pied piper on our forum telling us all this is untrue? Is that your role here? Don't you call me brother until you can seriously answer this and stop fucking with people's heads.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby Observer on Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:18 am

#1 - Do you think the perps watched their own 101-minute movie a few times before broadcasting it?
Yes or No.
I say Yes to that question.
Brian says yes to that question.
What do you say to that question Hoi?

#2 - Do you think the perps "added in, in real time, EVEN ONE LAYER taken from a LIVE shot of the towers?"
Yes or No.
I say No to that question.
Brian says no to that question.
What do you say to that question Hoi?

#3 - Regardless of our slightly differing opinions about the above two divisive questions, WHAT do you think humanity should do next?

I don't yet know WHAT IS the realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next.
I haven't seen Brian share yet WHAT IS the realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next.
I haven't seen you Hoi share yet WHAT IS the realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next.

From your most recent post, it seems you suggest "a march through the streets demanding change" IS something you are hoping for. OK, well, I am hoping for MUCH MORE than a march through the streets. I haven't seen any marches through the streets create any changes.

I am hoping that we can come up with a MUCH MORE powerful revolution than holding signs in the street requesting (oops, ahem "demanding" haha) that the proven-most-murderous-100-humans-currently-living would "Please stop punching humanity, or else we're gonna' write more signs and do more marches! Are you scared yet?"

Go ahead and paint me as an "agent provocateur" but I damn sure WOULD like to provoke humanity to take MUCH STRONGER realistic, moral, concrete actions: actions which might actually find/arrest/try/convict/imprison/execute/torture/reform or AT THE VERY LEAST actually SCARE or PUNCH FINANCIALLY the world's-wealthiest-anonymous-currently-living-100-humans-whose-names-we-will-never-know (the people who paid the Forbes list people to pay the Military&Media list people to broadcast a fictional-digital-movie, which caused millions of humans to have been killed in the subsequent wars.)

So, I keep saying it again and again, are we going to argue about the details we disagree about, or can we begin to think up and share a realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next.


WHAT is the realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next?


And yes, the ideas we share here online should ONLY be ideas which the anonymous-wealthiest-100 (who of course are reading this thread) CANNOT take preventative measures against. Do such Safely-Shareable yet Really-Revolutionary actions even exist?

So far, we have:

#1 - Don't vote.
That's Brian's suggestion.

#2 - Kill the bank parasites dead, by NEVER putting any money into them.
That's my suggestion: have your employer pay you in CASH each month.

#3 - Kill the government parasites dead, by reducing (to as close to zero as possible) income-tax payments, by avoiding money.
That's also my suggestion: start producing your OWN food/products/services, which you TRADE for others' food/products/services.

I hear you repeatedly asking "Are you working for the bad guys?" (No, I'm not. But me saying "I'm good" doesn't prove anything.)

I would like to hear some actual suggestions, from you Hoi, and from Simon and Brain and the other long-time media-fakery-awakened posters here, about WHAT humanity should do after we have been awakened to the reality of media-fakery.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:48 am

Observer wrote:WHAT is the realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next?

Simply put, engaging in personal development pursuits, and leadership in personal development matters, is what is to be done now. When large numbers of persons are working on being their best selves, and are helping others to do the same, we'll see the visceral change many of us are longing to experience.

Your edit "What humanity should do" leads me to say that "humanity" shouldn't do a darn thing. "Humanity" doesn't exist; only individual humans exist, and act.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby brianv on Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:54 pm

^
#1 - Do you think the perps watched their own 101-minute movie a few times before broadcasting it?


That's like asking did Hitchcock watch "Psycho" before it was shown in the cinema.

#2 - Do you think the perps "added in, in real time, EVEN ONE LAYER taken from a LIVE shot of the towers?"
Brian says no to that question.


Only insofar that I have seen all the footage, which I think I have. But I never said anything about LAYERS per se. I did suggest other "cinematic techniques"...for want of a better description!

#3 - Regardless of our slightly differing opinions about the above two divisive questions, WHAT do you think humanity should do next?
I haven't seen Brian share yet WHAT IS the realistic, moral, concrete action which millions (or even billions) of humans should do next.


The chance of them all ever knowing is slim, given the current nature of government and the media. But watching TV is a mental illness, same goes for allegiance to "government". IMO.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby Observer on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:37 pm

#1 - Improve your SELF.
You are not humanity, you are not a race, you are not a nation, you are not a team, you are even not a family. You are an individual.

#2 - Don't vote (and don't give allegiance to any government, nor to any other group at all, because: you are an independent individual.)
#3 - Don't watch TV.
#4 - Don't believe digital images.
#5 - Don't believe stories from anyone (including me, just another possible-probable-pied-piper) whether online or even face-to-face.

(This is a serious point, because any story you didn't actually see happening yourself in 3D in your town, is just that: an unproven story.)

#6 - Help as many individual humans as possible to see Simon's SeptemberClues and CluesForum and hopefully SeptemberClues2.
#7 - Help as many individual humans as possible to realize that the actions above are very important actions to consider starting.

(But, but, does #6 require believing a story? NO, because Simon does NOT tell a story. He only points out flaws in the official stories.)
(Simon is a story negator.)
(I personally am guilty of theorizing and pushing a story of "the normal demolition being COMPLETELY obscured by smoke on 9-11-2001.")
(I have no proof for my story.)
(Simon has safely avoided pushing stories, instead he says, "Look at these images which were broadcast, which are physically impossible. Use logic. Can these official broadcast images be recordings of the actual happening? Is this conflicting sunny-North-face image logical?")

#8 - March in the streets in high numbers of individual humans (thousands, millions, billions) with signs requesting/demanding changes.

(Sure, go for it, first please figure out, directly under this post if you like, what CONCRETE DEMANDS do you, the individual human reading this, plan to write on your sign? Because the signs need to have some CONCRETE DEMANDS written on them, right? What actions do you want to convince the world's-richest-100-humans to take, and what actions do you want to convince the world's-poorest-7-billion-humans to take? Please share concrete action suggestions. I just hope you have some stronger actions secretly ready to implement after that, if the marches don't scare the world's-top-war-initiators, because honestly, if I were one of the world's-top-war-initiators [which I, the poster who calls himself "Observer" might very well possibly be, muwa-ha-ha evil-laugh] you would have to take MUCH stronger action than THAT to scare me into stopping or even minimizing my profitable millennia-old proven-profitable technique of spreading bullshit stories to initiate-wars-to-grab-land-and-grab-gold. What are you going to do AFTER the sign waving? Even if you march with 3 billion humans, I would probably use my mainstream-media-staff, and my alternative-media-staff, to convince the other 4 billion humans that these marchers are "merely a surprisingly large number of misguided terrorists", so I really don't think marching will scare me [Observer, "one of the bad guys"] into agreeing to changing my current profitable system. And if you slaves take violent action, I can initiate a super-violent-official-reaction, since my media-staff have convinced most humans that my governments' Police&Soldiers are the ONLY humans ever able to use violence to create change. My soldiers can kill you, my cops can kill you, but "god forbid" you even think of implementing justice to a murderous-soldier or a murderous-cop or a murderous-war-initiator. So the marching-idea seems too weak, and the violent-uprising seems too unappealing to most humans. Don't you slaves have some out-of-the-box creative totally new idea about how to create change? I've got the Bankers&Government&Military&Media owners on my payroll, but there are only a few of us while there are 7 billion of you land-renting fruit-buying tax-paying company-working slaves! Can't you think of something that uses the power of your numbers that will actually SCARE me into giving back some of the 99.99% land-and-gold I own? Can't you think of something STRONGER than marching, something LESS martial-law-lockdown-inducing than a violent-uprising-against-my-disposable-political-puppets, and something MORE realistic than an immoral-attempt-at-consciousness-raising-by-simultaneous-worldwide-DMT-molecule-dispersion? Isn't it possible that you, the individual human reading this post, can suddenly think up a much better idea?)

#9 - Don't put your money into banks anymore (which means buy less online, choose local vendors in your town more.)
#10 - Don't work as a slave for company presidents (which means become independent to the highest degree possible.)
#11 - Produce your own food, goods, and services (which means become self-sufficient to the highest degree possible.)
#12 - Trade yours for others' food, goods, services (which means enjoying the same stuff WITHOUT needing fiat paper.)

(Even if governments start trying to force humans to pay taxes for their annual moneyless physical item/service trades, it will be harder for the parasitic taxman to prove - since physical trading can be done without evidence (no paper-evidence, no electronic-evidence) and since you hold no bank accounts and hold no money, what are they going to do to non-income-earners, come take your garden as a penalty for not using the paper/electronic "money" system? Ha, let's make 'em try to do that, come try to physically grab 30% of every single garden individually owned by 7 billion non-income-earners. This "avoid money, trade with humans in your town instead, thus no income-tax" idea seems much safer than the "money" system in which the government can easily freeze your electronic bank account.)

I don't know, am I shooting myself in the foot, am I using my supposedly high IQ in a very stupid way, by OPENLY sharing this current collection of ideas (ideas which mainly come from people whom I think are much more intelligent than me) about how to make positive changes? Are the world's-top-war-initators going to start taking preventative measures against the ideas shared here? Should I be keeping the best ideas secret? Are the ideas in this post somehow preventable, and thus should not be shared online?

I don't know, but I hope some individual would please add some MORE, better, realistic, moral, safely-shareable, really-revolutionary, concrete ACTIONS that each individual human can think about and decide for himSELF or herSELF what actions to begin doing right now, as an individual human, with an individual life, with an individual will, to increase individual happiness. :)
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby Selene on Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:40 pm

Hi Observer,

I directed a post to you, but unfortunately saw no reply.

On your questions:

#1 - Do you think the perps watched their own 101-minute movie a few times before broadcasting it?

Of course.

#2 - Do you think the perps "added in, in real time, EVEN ONE LAYER taken from a LIVE shot of the towers?"

Whatever they did technically, they presented a story which is physically impossible. It doesn't matter if they edited one layer here or there. It does not even matter that they had mistakes, obvious errors and the like. The propaganda and emotionalisation campaigns deal with that and make us to other people, even intelligent ones, called "crazy". How can you "deny a plane in the WTC"? Those kind of questions. People close off, they divert or simply stop listening to your arguments. You need quite some balls (not meant gender-specific) to maintain your position with so many attacks on you. But it works; the vast majority of people whatever they believe happened, believe planes "hit" (were morphed into I'd call it) the Twin Towers.

That brings up number 3:

#3 - Regardless of our slightly differing opinions about the above two divisive questions, WHAT do you think humanity should do next?

First of all I strongly strongly agree with the statement of HonestlyNow above; do not think for "humanity". Humanity is the total of humans, how can you ever state something the totality of mankind should do? We are all different and luckily so. This collectivism is exactly the root of all evil on the "other side"; the propagandists who want "humanity" to think along predefined lines.

Taking a step back and a less literal interpretation of "what should humanity do next", so more directed towards us -and I cannot stress it enough that really I feel like a baby on so many subjects, still recognizing my own negation modes and self protective denial that I am being fooled- I would say that educating children is the best and most effective way to deal with all the propaganda and fakery that surrounds us. It will not stop, on the contrary; it will increase every year. So our children will live in an even more f*cked up world in the sense of being fooled.

Teaching children alternative history, critical thinking, true questioning about what they see, etc. is essential for the future of mankind.

Apart from that; trying to convince others using arguments and evidence. And for that I think that only Cluesforum is not enough. I myself if I would have been presented with "the Atomic Bombs are fake" about 2 years ago, I would laugh at you, close off, walk away and ridicule. Like others do. Not because I am not a critical thinker (I hope to throw away the diapers pretty soon), but simply because it is "too much to handle". And that is when I already concluded that Sandy Hook, 9/11 and Boston (just "happened" less than 2 years ago) were faked. So even when people are "just about to enter the rabbit hole of massive fakery", it is hard to keep embracing them and invite them to even question so much more. And for that reason so extremely important to keep doing it. Patiently and not spoilt by cynicism.

It is here I think we can have a task. For this I would say the combination of all the great work done here and a more inviting, "sexy" approach in terms of marketing (good marketing, not selling crappy cars) is the golden key.

Why do people fall for NASA, for the Mass Media stories? Because they look and sound sexy. I don't think there's anything wrong with a sexy outfit, as long as the inside is true, moral, scientifically sound and honest. So no more fake pin-up pr0n videos (as the mass media and controlled opposition "alternative" media present to us), but an attractiveness on the outside and well-argumented evidence on the inside.

So separating ourselves from the hoaxers on the content level (trying to break down what is presented to us to be true) but not separating us on the outside, the package. Because people like beautiful packages, we cannot change "humanity" in that respect.

That means more September Clues's, more videos, more presentations at schools, universities, etc. More compilation and presentation of all the great content made here.

One can be sad that attractiveness scores, but disregarding that same human fact is in my eyes counterproductive.

Which one of us can go around to your complete social circle and talk about the views we share here? I couldn't. At all. People will mock, ridicule, and ignore me. And those are people who are not stupid (mostly academic level), not unfriendly (even best friends you can lose for it), etc. No perps or shills or trolls or what-have-you either. Just normal, regular, ordinary people, like 90% of that "humanity" you talked about.

The only way to break that "spell" in my opinion is to feed bit by bit. To go step by step and not "throw Cluesforum in their faces". There are some entry points into the awoken world that we are fooled so thoroughly and 9/11 is one of the "easiest" because the errors are so obvious and the political mistakes (WMDs in Iraq??) less difficult to see.

Selene

Good teaching is one-fourth preparation and three-fourths theatre
Gail Godwin (1937-)
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby Observer on Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:22 pm

To all readers (including you dear Selene) I have shared the most important ideas in my heart here, I will now go back to quietly reading.

Love and Gratitude -

Observer :)
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:38 pm

#1 - Do you think the perps watched their own 101-minute movie a few times before broadcasting it?
Yes or No.
I say Yes to that question.
Brian says yes to that question.
What do you say to that question Hoi?


Short answer: I don't know.

Long answer: brianv has not said "Yes" to that exact question in the way I feel you are interpreting it. Inherent to that query are the assumptions that you or I could identify what you mean by "perps". And then, thinking you know what the "101-minute movie" is, you'd have to explain why that metaphor is better as a scientific explanation than our true understanding that we've proven: there is a complex psychological, ongoing operation of unknown duration (and nigh uncountable minutes, hours, days of various re-hashes of the 100-some-minute "render" that ended up in archives) empowered mainly by a technological technique protected by willing, perpetual liars who verbally abuse people who try to draw more information about the program from them. You are basically just polluting good rhetoric with literal semantics arguments. A pretty common derailing technique of shills that have come on here in the past to draw quibbles from the grains of our pencil shavings.

To answer it, I would have to reframe your question as, "Was a psychological program using specific available tools, cryptically assembled to prevent discovery, tested to the best of their ability on a somewhat ineffective, possibly desperate, very controlled and therefore inaccurate sample population?"

And even then, I know that the only honest answer is to say "I don't know, but probably".

#2 - Do you think the perps "added in, in real time, EVEN ONE LAYER taken from a LIVE shot of the towers?"
Yes or No.
I say No to that question.
Brian says no to that question.
What do you say to that question Hoi?


As brianv answered, there are multiple techniques at work. We don't know what they all were. The only honest answer to this is, "I don't know" but I would further speculate that, since the towers are simulations and not true photography, since they are computer-generated graphics, and possibly at best rotoscoped or "modeled" from the real towers long in advance (and probably with almost a decade of SPI collaboration for their Spider-man (1999) model of New York City), is it an unlikely explanation that multiple layers from different sources were combined sloppily? You don't demonstrate your understanding of the all-caps, brainwashing word "LIVE" when you casually link it to the term "shot", implying that anything done in real-time must necessarily be something besides a render. "Shot" implies real photography in your question, but you should not use it that way. Censor buttons, or sports broadcasting techniques used to add layering to an angle "in real time" (the proper use of the term "real time"), do not have to be "live" and often add an over-all delay to the output in question; and that is just one example of probably a dozen ways something labeled "LIVE" is, in fact, computer generated imagery. Simon's guess about delay markers is still pretty astute, if you ask me.

To understand what "real time" and "LIVE" mean, is to understand that they are very different concepts that the average television viewer does not know how to distinguish, and that furthermore they both (in the mind of the brainwashed, which you slightly sound like at times) imply a third concept that is "un-modified, un-adulterated, un-doctored simple photography", but which in reality is separate from both of the former.

To distinguish better between technologies, we must be very clear in our language.

Your question is better phrased, "Was layering or compositing used of any kind?" to which I would responsibly answer, "I don't know, but it is extremely likely given the artificial nature of the so-called 'photography' that it was used in many cases where more convincing technique was not possible for unknown reasons."

You might also ask the question, "Was there any real photography used to report the events of 9/11, even if used deceptively?" to which we can somewhat confidently answer, "We haven't found any yet! Even the anchors in 'street scenes' look like they are pasted in, so probably not!"

#3 - Regardless of our slightly differing opinions about the above two divisive questions, WHAT do you think humanity should do next?


You admit your questions are "divisive", even though you are the only person on the forum that holds the opinion that you do, implying that you deliberately framed the questions to be divisive and drive a wedge into the clearer language we have been using for years. I am glad that you are saying you are going to be responsible to yourself and get yourself up to speed on things, because it's important for all readers not to be confused by your confusing use of technical language.

As to what "humanity" "should" do, it's not for you or me to decide. As others have said, individuals and communities have their own motivations to use the knowledge to their advantage, and hopefully, the collective and mutual advantage of human kind.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby brianv on Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:36 pm

simonshack wrote:
brianv wrote:Simon, Hoi

Is this the case of somebody joining the forum four years ago, before the membership was changed, then only recently dropping a single post into the "Gov/Anarchy" thread without so much as a handshake? Guerrilla posting, dig? Flabbergasted enquired. Should this practice be tolerated? Is there a way to rig the board so you can only post first in the "Introduce Yourself" thread before you can post in another.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1781&p=2394692#p2394683


Brian,

Our "REQUIRED: Introduce yourself" thread was made in October 2010, so I think it's fairly ok that the (few) members who registered before that date can post here - rather than asking them to retroactively introduce themselves.

Anyhow, "TwoWeeks" has already been asked (by Maat) to introduce him/herself - so let's hope he/she will gracefully accept to do so (if not, I think we can tolerate that - for the sake of fairness, since we have never asked all of our pre-2010 members to introduce themselves). In any case, I'm sure we can handle this little problem case by case. Not sure if the board can be rigged as you propose - will have to ask Hoi or Nonho about it.


No probs!

Anyway, being National Drunkard Day here, I thought I'd kick back and watch a Musical. :ph34r:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJ9U5m81PI

Miss it at your peril, interesting commentary from Steve Vai.
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby anonjedi2 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:20 am

How easy is it to take photographs of models and make them look realistic? This should be used as a lesson for everyone still trying to learn and grasp these concepts!

Recreating Historical Photos as Models by Jojakim Cortis and Adrian Sonderegger

Image

Image

Image

Image

More:

http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/recreat ... onderegger
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby Maat on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:24 am

brianv wrote:
Anyway, being National Drunkard Day here, I thought I'd kick back and watch a Musical. :ph34r:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJ9U5m81PI

Miss it at your peril, interesting commentary from Steve Vai.

Thanks for the Musical, Brian B)

“National Drunkard Day”; it's really a wake. Yeah, you’d have to be inebriated to celebrate “saint” Patrick the pagan killer — kind of an inverted D-Day, eh?

Funny how ‘Merika & Ireland are taught to revere the worst assholes in their histories (Patrick, Columbus et al).

There were no snakes in Ireland before Patrick brought in the RC Church <_< “Driving out the snakes” is a metaphor for the resistant pagans (snakes being ancient symbols for Wisdom too, of course).

http://www.pagancentric.org/pagans-and-saint-patricks-day/
http://www.biography.com/news/st-patrick-little-known-facts
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby anonjedi2 on Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:27 pm


German Airbus crashes in French Alps with 150 dead, black box found


An Airbus operated by Lufthansa's Germanwings budget airline crashed in a remote area of the French Alps on Tuesday, killing all 150 people on board including 16 schoolchildren.


...

Germanwings confirmed its flight 4U 9525 from Barcelona to Duesseldorf went down with 144 passengers and six crew on board.


The airline believed there were 67 Germans on the flight. Spain's deputy prime minister said 45 passengers had Spanish names. One Belgian was aboard.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/ ... ZP20150324
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread postby brianv on Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:02 pm

brianv wrote:Possibly where it all began - in the modern sense. And it sort of follows on from my "videophone" post of some months back.

Western Union transmitted its first halftone photograph in 1921. AT&T followed in 1924,[1] and RCA sent a Radiophoto in 1926. The Associated Press began its Wirephoto service in 1935 and held a trademark on the term AP Wirephoto between 1963 and 2004. The first AP photo sent by wire depicted the crash of a small plane in New York's Adirondack Mountains


I imagine the creation of this machine allowed for images our grandparents saw in their newspapers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirephoto


Image

Although the image is dated 1935, it corresponds to the article. http://afox11.dyndns-pics.com/xa/xaa751.jpg
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