THE DERAILING ROOM

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Flabbergasted
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:04 pm

edgewaters wrote:I disagree. It would certainly be good to discover this, but I don't think it's the most important thing. The most important thing is to expose the methods, because that's the only protection. Discovering the perps can serve justice, but it doesn't provide much protection ... a new bunch will just come along and replace them as long as the method remains viable. But if the method isn't viable, then that truly is game over.
You have a good point there. But in the case of Organized Jewry, the "who" is an integral part of the "how" and the "why".

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Re: Why a topic about a conspiracy dominated by Jews

Unread post by Seneca » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:40 pm

jumpy64 wrote:I think the brainwashing dimension is essential to understand how a group (or "tribe" if you will) of our fellow human beings can be conditioned to act "with no concerns for morality nor the slightest empathy for the other tribes sharing this world", as in Simon's brilliantly concise definition.
I am not so happy with the usage of the word "tribe" by Simon and jumpy64. We had some good words already: JPM's, Talmudists (Simon), Sayanim, Pharisees (from Elizabeth Dilling 's book).

I will explain what I mean and what I have against other general terms. The main problem I have with the word tribe is that it is too broad. It encompasses everyone who identifies himself for some part with the term "jew". And as I wrote I think there are many among them who don't teach their children to see other people as inferior. Now what do you expect these people to think when they discover this website. I think they have a few choices.
-"They are wrong about this, I am a member of this tribe and I am not like that. So they are probably mistaken about the rest too."
-"They are right most of the time, so maybe they are right about this as well; I don't want to be part of this tribe anymore!"

Will this help our struggle much? I doubt so. They would likely end up ruining their relationships with most of their friends and family who are not as far as them. It would become very hard to get any of their connections to learn from our research. It would become very hard to do their own research in their community. These choices are not always taken consciously, I think our brains would go for the first choice.

When we refer to this group as Talmudists, jewish people have other choices. They could check the book out and decide if it should stay a part of the culture that they want to give their children. They don't have to break up with their friends, unless they are real devote followers of that book (in which case it wouldn't be very bad). They could talk to other people asking them what they think of that book. They could explain why they don't like it. I think this is much more helpful, for one reason because it has the potential to isolate the Talmudists (or JPM's, whatever) .
Maybe someone can explain this better, writing English doesn't go very well today.
Maybe we should ask some of the good jews out there ?

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Re: Why a topic about a conspiracy dominated by Jews

Unread post by jumpy64 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:51 pm

Seneca wrote:
jumpy64 wrote:I think the brainwashing dimension is essential to understand how a group (or "tribe" if you will) of our fellow human beings can be conditioned to act "with no concerns for morality nor the slightest empathy for the other tribes sharing this world", as in Simon's brilliantly concise definition.
I am not so happy with the usage of the word "tribe" by Simon and jumpy64. We had some good words already: JPM's, Talmudists (Simon), Sayanim, Pharisees (from Elizabeth Dilling 's book).

I will explain what I mean and what I have against other general terms. The main problem I have with the word tribe is that it is too broad. It encompasses everyone who identifies himself for some part with the term "jew". And as I wrote I think there are many among them who don't teach their children to see other people as inferior. Now what do you expect these people to think when they discover this website. I think they have a few choices.
-"They are wrong about this, I am a member of this tribe and I am not like that. So they are probably mistaken about the rest too."
-"They are right most of the time, so maybe they are right about this as well; I don't want to be part of this tribe anymore!"

Will this help our struggle much? I doubt so. They would likely end up ruining their relationships with most of their friends and family who are not as far as them. It would become very hard to get any of their connections to learn from our research. It would become very hard to do their own research in their community. These choices are not always taken consciously, I think our brains would go for the first choice.

When we refer to this group as Talmudists, jewish people have other choices. They could check the book out and decide if it should stay a part of the culture that they want to give their children. They don't have to break up with their friends, unless they are real devote followers of that book (in which case it wouldn't be very bad). They could talk to other people asking them what they think of that book. They could explain why they don't like it. I think this is much more helpful, for one reason because it has the potential to isolate the Talmudists (or JPM's, whatever) .
Maybe someone can explain this better, writing English doesn't go very well today.
Maybe we should ask some of the good jews out there ?
Thank you, Seneca, point taken. I've edited my post. I can't edit the quote, but I think the term "tribe" balances out there, because Simon uses it to define both the Jews and the "other tribes".

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by jumpy64 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:12 pm

Today, while watching parts of "Defamation" again (I hope some of you found this documentary interesting, by the way), I was thinking that I don't want this thread to be one-sided.

I mean, I found a video in which an orthodox Jew says he's never experienced anti-semitism personally, and he wasn't convinced even by the examples given by the ADL, but this doesn't necessarily mean that anti-semitism doens't exist anymore.

Me too, I can't remember examples of this phenomenon in my personal experience, but I'm not Jewish, and maybe there are people in this forum, Jewish or not, who have encountered anti-semitism personally or witnessed it somewhere.

I'd like to hear contemporary and possibly direct (meaning not filtered through the media) examples of anti-semitism in our Western society. I mean especially real acts of discrimination in everyday life, like losing a job for being Jewish, for example, or being prevented to access a mostly non-Jewish environment, or being insulted, ridiculed or even attacked in the streets, something of the kind. And the example would be even more meaningful if the injustice in question, when reported, went unpunished because of an environment generally hostile to Jewish people.

I mean, since anti-semitism seems to be a very big problem (if not one of the biggest) in contemporary world, somebody should have encountered it directly in most environments, and possibly even here, I think.

Or it could even be that we don't encounter it anymore because the ADL, with its 29 offices in the US alone, is doing a great job, I don't know.

In any case, I'd like to offer a further platform for discriminated Jewish people to speak out.

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by jumpy64 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:43 am

starfish prime wrote:Would it not be reasonable to suggest that the JPMs might simply be Talmudists, in either Judaic or non-Judaic form? This term seems less likely to evoke ideas of race, or the denouncing of an entire culture, as most (ethnically or religiously) Jewish people are not Talmudic scholars, and are probably unfamiliar with its doctrine of racial supremacy, though they may certainly reap some of its benefits (sociopolitical connections, reparations payments to Israel, Kol Nidrei, etc.) or serve as unknowing "sayanim" (such as by defending the JPMs against "antisemitism"). It would seem that many of the so-called "Jewish" ideologies of manipulation (media deception, Zionism, Communism) have roots in the Talmud: [...]

I will stop there for now. Am I being too speculative or paranoid? This is my first proper post, so feel free to critique it.
Yours is an excellent post, starfish prime! And incredibly promising as a "first proper post" too. It's too long to be quoted here in its entirety, but I suggest everybody who might have missed it to go back and read it on page 15 of this thread.

And no, I don't think you're being too speculative or paranoid. On the contrary, I think you're hitting the nail right on the head on many accounts. I might quote you again in future posts, if you don't mind.

I needed some time to absorb all the precious info yielded by your valiant research, but I want you to know that I greatly appreciate your effort.

And I want to encourage you to contribute more to this topic if, as it seems, you find it meaningful.

Thank you!

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by jumpy64 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:42 pm

While investigating the Ukrainian famine that in the documentary “Defamation” Mr. Foxman of ADL didn’t want to be compared to the Jewish Holocaust, I’ve discovered some very interesting facts that I want to share with you here.

First of all, it was a a man-made famine in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1932 and 1933, in which anywhere from 1.8 to 12 million ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished. It was called Holodomor or “Extermination by hunger”. Even Wikipedia admits that
since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by the independent Ukraine and many other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people carried out by the Soviet Union.
And guess who’s recognized, although in relatively hushed tones, as the main responsible of those deaths? A little man with dark, short hair and small moustaches…

No, not THAT one!

It’s Genrikh Grigoryevich Yagoda (born Yenokh Gershevich Iyeguda).

I bet this name doesn’t ring a bell for most people. And yet Wikipedia writes that
Yagoda is held responsible, through his authority as a Soviet official, for the implementation of Stalin's policies that caused the deaths of more than 7 million Ukrainians during the Holodomor in Ukraine. Yagoda, as a NKVD official, would have been involved with the seizures or blockades of food, tools etc and the movement of inhabitants. Though people in the Soviet Union died from hunger in 1932 and 1933, in Ukraine the authorities went much further by quarantining and starving the population.
He’s been even defined as “the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century” by the Israeli journalist Sever Plocker, author of a 2012 article titled “Stalin's Jews - We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish”, available at http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 99,00.html

The info contained in this article is particularly meaningful because it comes from an apparently honest Jewish source. Plocker continues by writing that as
the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD” (The People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs) . Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system.
But according to Plocker, he wasn’t the only Jewish mass murderer involved in the Soviet revolution. Here’s what he says in the last part of his article:
After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."

Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.

Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.

I particularly agree with Plocker's conclusion:
The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.
Maybe that's the main reason why Mr. Foxman didn't like the comparison between the two "holos". His co-religionists must always be perceived as victims, never as executioners. But certain parts of history, however not much publicized, tell a different tale, I'm afraid.

simonshack
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by simonshack » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:09 pm

jumpy64 wrote: "Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich."

(extract from Sever Ploger's article linked above)
Funny why Sever Plocker would focus his article on that little Yagoda guy (who was himself ultimately 'a martyr' - executed by his bosses.) Kaganovich, Stalin's 'right hand man', only gets a passing mention...

I mean, why not focus on Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich, for instance - if citing the Big Bad JPM's was truly his article's gist?
(btw, how many of us knew that Stalin married Kaganovich's sister? Or that Stalin's daughter married Kaganovich's son?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_Kaganovich

Image

Pardon my ignorance about the subject, but is this website credible / reliable? Who's behind it - does anyone know?

You know, I had never - in my entire life - heard of the Holodomor before. I feel bad about it! :(

How could this possibly be the case? Is the media biased and / or withholding information from me? :huh:

Also, I never knew that Lenin said these words (to be found on Wikipedia) :
Lenin was an atheist, and believed that socialism was inherently atheistic; he thus deemed Christian socialism to be a contradiction in terms.[288] Privately, he was critical of his Russian homeland, describing it as "one of the most benighted, medieval and shamefully backward of Asian countries".[250] He was similarly critical of the Russian people, informing Gorky that "An intelligent Russian is almost always a Jew or someone with Jewish blood".
Oh, so Lenin (the atheist) was ...uh ... actually admitting to be a bit daft ? Or was he an 'atheist Jew'? I don't get it !

omaxsteve
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by omaxsteve » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:01 pm

simonshack wrote:*
Funny... :huh:

As I try to launch the above-posted YT documentary, the screen goes black and a caption says :

"This content is not available on this country domain"

Someone must be 'prejudiced' against Italian residents - like myself...
Rather than insinuating that the dastardly "jewish conspiracy" is behind the censorship you rightfully are upset about,, would it not be more helpful to investigate the reasoning or motivation behind the passing of these laws? How great is the jewish influence in Italian politics? What are the motivations behind the passing of these laws? What pressure is being brought to bear on the Italian (and other countries) law makers to get them to enact such legislation? It's easy to blame everything on the jewish conspiracy, but I think this forum, needs to be better than that.

According to this article http://www.thelocal.it/20150211/italy-s ... ust-denial 234 of a total of 245 Senators in Italy voted in favor of the law. What could have been their motivation? Surely they were not pandering to the Jewish vote... There are reportedly only 30,000 Jews living in Italy a country with a population of 61 million. How much power and influence can such a small group possibly have? Is the Italian media also dominated by Jewish ownership?

I have not found the actual wording of the law, but the article states that there are provisions in the law protecting freedom of speech.

Italy Senate moves to outlaw Holocaust denial
Published: 11 Feb 2015 16:04 GMT+01:00

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit
Italian senators on Wednesday voted in favour of a bill criminalizing Holocaust denial, following changes to the proposed law to protect freedom of speech.

Anti-Semitism mars Holocaust Memorial Day (27 Jan 15)
A total of 234 senators voted for the bill, while eight abstained and three voted against the new law, Il Sole 24 Ore reported.
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Another article from the same source has this as the headline: Anti-Semitism mars Holocaust Memorial Day (27 Jan 15)
It seems like the Right wing group known as "militia' hung a banner at a park with a message both denying the holocaust and praising Adolf Hitler.

http://www.thelocal.it/20150127/rome-an ... morial-day

While, as I previously stated, I am against all forms of censorship, I can understand laws that are in place in many countries against inciting hatred. There seems to be a very high correlation between so called "holocaust deniers" or revisionists and those that are prejudiced against Jews in general. The laws against holocaust denial are actually hurting the "jewish" cause, in my opinion. It allows people, as Simon has done here, to insinuate that the "jews" are responsible for not only creating the hoax, but also for preventing anyone from researching it. Allowing the revisionists arguments to be heard, loud and clear, and then taken apart piece by piece would be better way to allow people who are interested in learning more about the horrible atrocities that were committed by the Nazi regime. I am hopeful, and confident, that most of the people on this site are honestly looking for the truth, and not simply a way to justify their preconceived negative perceptions towards ANY religious, or ethnic, group.

I will no longer post on this topic, I do not want to be seen as trying to derail the "research" on any topic. There has been much written on both side of this debate. If anyone is interested in reading the arguments "debunking" the holocaust denier's claims, here is a good place to start: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... nial1.html .




regards,

Steve O.

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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by simonshack » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:14 pm

omaxsteve wrote:What pressure is being brought to bear on the Italian (and other countries) law makers to get them to enact such legislation?
Well, that is precisely the question I had - and still have. See, we share the same questions, Steve O ! :)

Another question I now have is the following (thanks to Jumpy's info on that other thread - linked below) :

Have you, in your entire life, ever heard of the 'Holomodor'? http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2397471#p2397471

(I extend this question to all Cluesforum readers.)

Critical Mass
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Critical Mass » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:26 am

omaxsteve wrote: Vomit inducing nonsense piled on top of nonsense
It's been nearly two weeks since you posted one of most utterly useless & despicable posts on Cluesforum. Presumably the post you made today was meant to be some kind of tribute to it?

Reading it I'm left with several observations...

(I) You use the term 'Jewish conspiracy' like a white nationalist would do. Is that surprising to you? As it certainly isn't to me. Undoubtedly the Holohoax involves many 'Jews' however it is clearly a military/media hoax in nature... very similar to 9/11 in that regards.

(II) You pose some interesting questions regarding the censorship... however you also ignore your own, seemingly self-imposed, 'censorship'. Not once have you responded to a specific example of media fakery on this topic... you've remained silent on bars of soap, forged photos, ridiculous 'eyewitness' accounts, utterly impossible logistics, non-lethal execution methods (diesel exhaust!), the persecution of Jewish 'Holocaust' 'deniers'... even the words of bostonterrierowner.

(III) 'Very high correlation'... do you have any actual stats for that? Or is it just something you saw on TV? In addition what do you mean by 'prejudice'... the legal definition or the dictionary definition?

Image

Both do not appear to apply to Holocaust 'revisionism' (aka 'reading the stories & realizing they are bullshit').

(IV) We here on Cluesforum are meant to present evidence for the neutral reader... as your link does not mention bars of soap, forged photos, ridiculous 'eyewitness' accounts, utterly impossible logistics, non-lethal execution methods, the persecution of Jewish 'Holocaust' 'deniers' etc how is a neutral reader meant to evaluate it*?

simonshack wrote:Have you, in your entire life, ever heard of the 'Holomodor'? http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2397471#p2397471

(I extend this question to all Cluesforum readers.)
I have... perhaps that makes me 'prejudiced'?





* (other than what it is... derailing)

starfish prime
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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by starfish prime » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:46 pm

Thank you for the kind words, jumpy64 & ICfreely!

---

The so-called "Russian Revolution" is very suspicious. Take Ilya Ehrenburg, for example, the leading Soviet propagandist during World War 2, who was also the first person to use the "6 million Jews" figure in relation to the Holocaust.

Here is a quote from his leaflet, "Kill":
The Germans are not human beings. From now on the word German means to use the most terrible oath. From now on the word German strikes us to the quick. We shall not speak any more. We shall not get excited. We shall kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day ... If you cannot kill your German with a bullet, kill him with your bayonet. If there is calm on your part of the front, or if you are waiting for the fighting, kill a German in the meantime. If you leave a German alive, the German will hang a Russian and rape a Russian woman. If you kill one German, kill another -- there is nothing more amusing for us than a heap of German corpses. Do not count days, do not count kilometers. Count only the number of Germans killed by you. Kill the German -- that is your grandmother's request. Kill the German -- that is your child's prayer. Kill the German -- that is your motherland's loud request. Do not miss. Do not let through. Kill.
Strangely enough, Ehrenburg decided to secretly donate his archives to Israel, not the Soviet Union. From the Canadian Jewish News:
… The recent disclosure that Ehrenburg arranged to transfer his private archives to Jerusalem's Yad Vashem library and archive, while still alive, comes as a stunning revelation. The reason this information has come to light only now is that Ehrenburg agreed to transfer his archive on condition that the transfer, and his will, remain secret for 20 years after his death. On Dec. 11 [1987], with the 20-year period expired, Israel's daily Maariv related Ehrenburg's story…
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p507_Weber.html

And more recently, in the Jerusalem Post:
MOSCOW – Israel will erect a memorial commemorating the Red Army’s crucial role in the victory over the Nazis, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu told Russian Prime Minster Vladimir Putin at a photo opportunity before their meeting Tuesday.

Netanyahu said the gesture, which he intends to move forward, is in honor of the 65th anniversary of the victory over the Nazis later this year. This move comes amid growing concern in Russia that their role and sacrifice in the victory over Nazism is increasingly being underplayed.

Putin, saying that it was forbidden to forget the Nazi victims and that the Jews and the people of the former Soviet Union suffered more than anyone else at the hands of the Nazis, said he was currently in discussion with Moscow’s chief rabbi about the possibility of establishing a Holocaust museum in Moscow.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/PM-Israel-t ... y-memorial

So Israel is commemorating these perpetrators of genocide as heroes who fought against genocide! Though I suppose that is not surprising when Netanyahu can praise sephardic Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, saying that he felt "profound grief" over his death, and that Yosef was “among the greatest rabbis of our generation.” (http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Shas ... -93-328072)

Here are some quotes from Rabbi Yosef, "one of the sages of the generation":
Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.
In Israel, death has no dominion over them… With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money
Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat… That is why gentiles were created.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/5-of-ovadi ... uotations/
It is forbidden to be merciful to [Arabs]. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable....The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm

---

Edited to include this article about an investigation into "holocaust survivor" and former director of Yad Vashem, Yitzhak Arad, alleging that he murdered Lithuanian civilians as a member of the NKVD during World War 2:
Last year, Lithuania opened a criminal investigation against Yitzhak Arad, a former director of Yad Vashem, who survived the Holocaust in Lithuania and fought with local resistance fighters against the Nazis.

Lithuanian authorities officially asked Israel to allow it to investigate the 81-year-old Arad on suspicion that he took part in the murder of Lithuanian civilians during the Holocaust. The case is based on Arad's memoir, in which he describes his experiences as a partisan in Nazi-occupied Lithuania.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 92,00.html
http://www.prokuraturos.lt/News/Yizthak ... fault.aspx

The investigation was eventually dropped due to "failure to collect sufficient data." (http://www.prokuraturos.lt/News/Yizthak ... fault.aspx)

From Arad's memoir:
At the beginning of 1945,I was sent to fight the Lithuanian gangs near the township of Lingmiany,a region populated entirely by Lithuanians, which added to the size and strength of the gangs operating there. There were twenty-five men in our unit, and we stayed in a building at the edge of town that had once been a flour mill.“I participated in this mopping-up operation. We thoroughly combed the forests of the region. The deep snow made walking difficult, but it also revealed the footsteps of the Lithuanian bands. After a few days of searching we discovered their encampment. Their forest camp was fenced in and had underground bunkers. We fought with them for a whole day, but by evening none of them remained alive. The next day we counted over 250 Lithuanian dead. Some were in a field near a lake to which they had tried to escape.”
http://defendinghistory.com/wp-content/ ... AUSKAS.pdf
Last edited by starfish prime on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:19 pm

starfish prime wrote: Here are some quotes from Rabbi Yosef, "one of the sages of the generation":
("........unprintable..........")
Woah. Rabbi Yosef sure sounds very angry with non-Jews! Aren't such statements what people call 'hate speech' ? :huh:

(sorry for asking: I'm an alien from planet Mars who just landed on this planet. Am still catching up with you folks!)

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Re: "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspirac

Unread post by jumpy64 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:38 pm

simonshack wrote:
starfish prime wrote: Here are some quotes from Rabbi Yosef, "one of the sages of the generation":
("........unprintable..........")
Woah. Rabbi Yosef sure sounds angry with non-Jews! Aren't such statements what people call 'hate speech' ? :huh:

(sorry for asking: I'm an alien from planet Mars who just landed on this planet.)
No, Simon, you've been on Mars for too long, so let me update you.

It can't be hate speech when it comes from rabbis. At the most it can be considered "controversial" speech.

Hate speech is when you have the audacity to suggest that what certain rabbis or some of their co-religionists are saying or doing may be hateful.

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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by simonshack » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:24 pm

omaxsteve wrote:What are the motivations behind the passing of these [anti-Holocaust-questioning] laws? What pressure is being brought to bear on the Italian (and other countries) law makers to get them to enact such legislation?
(...)
regards,

Steve O.
THE COUDENHOVE-KALERGI "plan"

As I said yesterday, Steve, I share with you these same questions of yours. So I spent some time today trying to understand what pressure may possibly be exerted on European leaders to enact such bizarre "thought-crime" legislation. See, as the curious fellow that I am, I always strive to make sense of the senseless things in this world and - as I do so - I often try to adopt the perspective of an alien from outer space who has just landed on planet Earth. Well, it took me only ONE day to find a possible / plausible answer to our commonly-shared questions! (it must be my magic Kryptonite wand, it always seems to come handy in my intergalactic travels !)

Steve, have you ever heard of the Coudenhove-Kalergi EUROPE PRIZE (or "Charlemagne Prize") ?
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Well, in case you've never heard of it, please know that this 'prestigious prize' is handed out every two years to ...
"The prize is awarded every two years by the European Society Coudenhove Kalergi to leaders who
stand out for their exceptional contribution in the process of European unification."
http://www.european-society-coudenhove- ... hiv/49.pdf
Here's an (incomplete) list of some past lucky winners of the 'prestigious Coudenhove-Kalergi ("Charlemagne") Europe Prize' (you might recognize some names here and there, as they've all been on TV at one stage or another):

2008 Angela Merkel - Germany
2007 Javier Solana - Spain
2003 Valéry Giscard d'Estaing - France
2000 Bill Clinton - United States
1999 Tony Blair - United Kingdom
1994 Gro Harlem Brundtland - Norway
1993 Felipe González - Spain
1992 Jacques Delors - France
1991 Václav Havel - Czechoslovakia
1988 Helmut Kohl - Germany / and François Mitterrand- France
1987 Henry Kissinger - United States
1982 King Juan Carlos of Spain - Spain
1979 Emilio Colombo - Italy
1969 European Commission - (Europe)
1956 Sir Winston S. Churchill - United Kingdom
1952 Alcide de Gasperi - Italy
1950 Richard Nikolaus Coudenhove-Kalergi - Austria (yeah, the guy after whom the prestigious prize is named)

Am I making this up? Not at all. Check out the full list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne_Prize

And here is the PANEUROPA website, citing this Coudenhove-Kalergi fellow as "their founder" :
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http://www.paneuropa.org/

Now, you may ask: WHO the heck is this Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi fellow? Or perhaps not, Steve: perhaps you HAVE heard of the guy? See, I can be excused, since I only recently landed on this planet - or, hey, so it seems to me ! In any case, I can assure you that this peculiar Coudenhove-Kalergi chap has NEVER been aired on Mars-TV (nor anywhere else). Not once - in all these years ! Anyways, he seems to have been a well-travelled fellow. His father spoke 16 languages - and was a close chum of Theodor Herzl (yes that Theodor - founder of Zionism).

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Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi

Now, if you've never heard of our intellectual Dick, you may start here -: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_N ... ve-Kalergi
But be warned: Wikipedia mentions nothing with regards to his astounding "Jewish Master Race" ideas.

Here follow some excerpts from his 1925 pamphlet / manifesto, "PRACTICAL IDEALISM". I know, I have just selected - quite subjectively, I'll admit - a few passages here that I find relevant to our current discourse (and higlighted a few lines in bold or red for emphasis) - but anyone interested can just as well go to the following link and read the whole thing: http://pol-check.blogspot.it/2015/06/pr ... olaus.html

Keep in mind that this was written in 1925 - i.e. in between WWI and WWII.
(my personal comments are in dark blue type)
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Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"Truthful people are always silent: because every claim is, in a sense, a lie; pure hearted people are always inactive: because every act is, in a sense, wrong. Bravery is but to speak when the risk is a lie; to do and to act risks injustice. Inbreeding strengthens the character, weakens the spirit - cross breeding weakens the character, strengthens the mind. Where inbreeding and crossbreeding meet under happy auspices, they bear witness to the highest type of human being the strongest character combines with the sharpest mind. Where inbreeding and mixture come together under unfortunate auspices they create degenerative types of weak character and dull mind. Man will be hybrid in the distant future. Today's races and castes are the increasingly falling victim to the fact that space, time and Prejudice are being overcome. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, outwardly similar to the ancient Egyptian, will replace the diversity of peoples with a variety of personalities. According to the laws of inheritance difference increases with the diversity of ancestors and the monotony of offspring with the monotony of their ancestors."
(...)
"The Jewish prophets of the present are preparing a new world era, in particular to make the Ethical primary: in politics, religion, philosophy and art. From Moses to Weininger ethics is the main problem of Jewish philosophy. In this basic ethical attitude to the world is a root of the unique greatness of the Jewish people - at the same time there is the danger that Jews who have lost their belief in ethics sink to cynical egoists: whilst people of other mentality still have an abundance chivalrous values ​​and prejudices left over, even after losing their ethical attitude (man of honor, gentleman, cavalier etc.), to protect them from the fall into chaotic values. How the Jews mainly differ from the average city dwellers is that they are an inbred people. Strength of character associated with mental acuity predestined the finest specimens of the Jews to guide urban humanity in revolution, those who lacked the real spirit of aristocrats became the protagonists of capitalism."
(...)
"The printing press gave the spirit a means of power of unlimited scope, it placed the writer at the heart of reading and so raised the writer to be the spiritual leader of the masses. Gutenberg has taken the reins of power and defeated the sword. Using printer's ink Luther has conquered a bigger empire than any German emperor."
(...)
Alright, so now we get to the really interesting part of this little-known philosopher's 'thought mechanisms':
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"To ascend and go forward targets are needed; to achieve goals, people are needed to put the goals that lead to objectives: aristocracy. The aristocrat as a leader is a political concept; the nobleman as an example of an aesthetic ideal. The highest requirement demands that aristocracy with nobility, leadership coincides with a model: that perfect man falls to the leadership. From the mass of European humanity, two quality races stand out: blood aristocracy and Jewry. Separated from each other, they both hold firmly to the belief in their higher mission, of their better blood, to human differences in rank. In these two heterogeneous preference breeds the core of the future European nobility lies: in the feudal blood aristocracy, as far as he, as far as he did not let himself be corrupted by capital or the court and in the Jewish brain aristocracy.


Oh, I get it. So the "quality races" that stand out are: aristocracy and Jewry. Hmm. Well, let's get on.
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

Judaism and The Future Nobility

"The mainstays of the intellectual aristocracy: of capitalism, journalism and Literature are Jews. The superiority of their spirit predestines them to become a major factor in future nobility.

A look at the history of the Jewish people explains its lead in the struggle for human leadership. Two thousand years ago, Judaism was a religious community, composed of ethically and religiously predisposed individuals from all nations of the ancient cultural world, with a national-Hebrew center in Palestine. Already at that time the common, unifying and primary idea was not nation, but religion. During the first millennium of the Christian era proselytes from all peoples were in this faith community who had one, last king and nobility amongst the people of the Mongolian Khazars, the masters of southern Russia. Only from then on the Jewish religious community joined forces in an artificial national community against all other nations *.

* This refers primarily to Central and Eastern Europe.

"Through unspeakable persecutions Christian Europe tried for a millennium to exterminate the Jewish people. The result was that all Jews who were weak-willed, ruthless, opportunistic or skeptical were baptized, thereby to escape the torment of endless persecution. On the other hand there were those Jews who were clever and inventive enough were to win the struggle for existence in this difficult time. So eventually all these persecutions produced a small community, steeled by an heroically endured martyrdom for the idea and cleansed of all weak-willed and mentally poor elements. Instead of destroying Jewry, Europe has reluctantly, through this artificial selection process refined and educated the Jews to be a leader nation of the future. No wonder that this people, sprung from the ghetto prison, evolved into a spiritual nobility of Europe. Thus has a kind Providence, as the feudal nobility fell, bestowed by the Jewish emancipation a new breed of noble spirit and graces on Europe."
Aha - so it's all a matter of 'Providence', then. 'Noble spirit and graces' just isn't for everyone, I suppose...
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"Note: Judaism is the new nobility; but Judaism is the womb, from which a new, spiritual nobility of Europe is made; the core around which a new, spiritual nobility, an intellectual and urban master race is in education: idealists, witty and finely tuned, just and full of conviction, loyal, brave as the feudal nobility in its best days. They bear death and persecution, hatred and contempt happily in order to make mankind moral, spiritual and happy. The Jewish heroes and martyrs of the Eastern and Central European Revolution are the equal of The non-Jewish heroes of the World War and are superior in courage, perseverance and idealism. The essence of these men and women who try to redeem and regenerate mankind is a peculiar synthesis of religious and political elements: of heroic martyrdom and spiritual propaganda, revolutionary energy and social love, of justice and compassion. These traits, which once created the Christian world movement, they now set as the superior goal of the socialist movement. The Jews of the disinherited masses of Europe have been more richly gifted in spiritual salvation and morality than any other nation.
"More richly gifted in spiritual salvation and morality". Hmm, ok - Got that. Phew, this is some deep shit! :P
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

Modern Judaism exceeds all other nations in its percentage of great men: scarcely one century after its liberation this small people stands today with Einstein at the forefront of modern science; with Mahler at the forefront of modern music; with Bergson at the forefront of modern philosophy; with Trotsky at the top of modern politics. The prominent role that Judaism holds today, it owes to its own intellectual superiority, which enables it to triumph over hateful, jealous rivals in intellectual competition. Modern anti-Semitism is one of the many response phenomena of mediocrity against the excellent; is a modern form of ostracism applied against a whole people.
Oh yeah, that Einstein bloke. Too bad he's now been outed as a clown: he even participated in the "atomic bomb" HOAX - which has terrorized the entire world for 70+ years. And Trotsky? Well, he turned out to be a vile mass-murderer. "Great men" for sure !
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

As a people Jewry experiences the eternal struggle of quantity against quality, inferior groups against higher individuals, inferior majorities against higher minorities. The main roots of anti-Semitism are limitedness and envy: narrowness in religious or scientific thought; envy in the spiritual or in ecomomics. The fact is that they have emerged from an international religious community, not from a local race, the Jews are the people of the strongest blood mixture; the fact that they cut themselves a thousand years from the other nations, they are the people with the strongest inbreeding. To unite, as the nobility, the elect among them willpower with mental acuity, while another part of the Jews displays the shortcomings of inbreeding with the deficiencies of the blood: lack of character and narrowness. Here we find holy self-sacrifice besides narrow selfishness, purest idealism next to crass materialism. Here, too, proves the rule: the more mixed a people, the more dissimilar their representatives are to each other, the more impossible it is to construct unit types.
"Construct unit types?" Wow - who would possibly want to "construct unit types?"
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"Where there is much light, there is plenty of shade. Ingenious families have a higher percentage of lunatics and criminals than the mediocre; the same is true of nations. Not only the revolutionary spirit aristocracy of tomorrow are primarily recruited from Jews but also the plutocratic Kakistokracy [rotten plutocrats] of today : and thus sharpens the agitational weapon of anti-Semitism."
Huh? "Not only the revolutionary spirit aristocracy of tomorrow are primarily recruited from Jews"? Sorry - but that's just waayy beyond my comprehension. I have only just landed on Earth with my spaceship, remember?
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"Millennial slavery has given the Jews, with rare exceptions, the form of the master race. Permanent suppression inhibits personal development: and therefore takes away a major element of the aesthetic noble ideal. The majority of Jews lack the outward display of suffering, physically and mentally, this deficiency is the main cause that the European instinct struggles against and causes them to fail to recognize Judaism as a noble race. Resentment due to suppression has burdened Jewry and gives it much vital tension; but makes for a lot of noble harmony. Excessive inbreeding, coupled with the highly urban ghetto past has left many traits of physical and psychological decadence in its wake. What won the head of the Jews, has often lost their body; what their brains won, their nervous system has lost. So Judaism suffers from a hypertrophy of the brain [ :lol: no kidding!] and is in conflict with the aristocratic demand for harmonious personality development.
Woah - I'm so glad my brain doesn't suffer from hypertrophia - I really care about my harmonious personality development!
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"The physical and nervous weakness of many spiritually excellent Jews leads the occurrence of a lack of physical courage (often in conjunction with the highest moral courage) and insecurity that appear today to be incompatible with the chivalrous ideal of an aristocratic people. So the spiritual Master Race of the Jews suffer from training as slaves of people who have impressed on them their historical development: today Jewish leaders and personalities wear the attitudes and gestures of an unfree, oppressed people. In their gestures debased aristocrats often appear more noble than excellent Jews. These shortcomings of Jewry, due to their historical environment will disappear as they undergo development again.
I only wish that Dick would stop going on about that "Master Race" thing. It's kinda silly.
Let's now see what Dick has to say about the development of American Jewry:

Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"The rustic style of Judaism (a main objective of Zionism) is the result of the ghetto, Judaism can be freed of this through a sporting education. That this is possible is shown by the development of American Jewry. Judaism has won actual freedom and power and is gaining consciousness of the same, gradually the consciousness, posture and gesture of a free, powerful people will follow. Not only Jewry will change in the direction of Western aristocratic ideals but the Western aristocratic ideal will also experience a transformation as it meets Judaism halfway. In a more peaceful future in Europe the aristocracy will strip off its warlike character and undergo a spiritual - priestly swap. A pacified and socialized occident will need a lord and ruler no more - only leaders, educators, examples. In an oriental Europe of the future a knight will be more like a Brahmin aristocrat and / or Mandarin.
Get that: "In a more peaceful future in Europe the aristocracy will strip off its warlike character and undergo a spiritual - priestly swap." Wow, I can just see that happening... Warmongering heads-of-state & aristocrats turning into pacifist priests & rabbis, eh? Sounds great. But let's now get to the final "OUTLOOK" predicted by this fantastic philosopher of yore, whose name is forever remembered via the "Coudenhove-Kalergi EUROPE PRIZE" handed out to the powerful folks of this world :
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

OUTLOOK

"The noble man of the future is neither feudal nor Jewish, neither bourgeois nor proletarian: he will be synthetic. The races and classes will disappear in the modern sense and the personalities will remain. Only by connecting with the best blood of the citizens, the viable elements of erstwhile feudal nobility will climb to new heights; only by uniting with the peaks of Gentile Europeanness will the Jewish element of the future nobility reach full development. The chosen people of the future may be a physical soup of the consummate body and gestures of rustic nobility, a mentally highly educated Urban nobility with spiritualized physiognomies. The nobility of the past was based on quantity: the feudal nobility limited by the number of ancestors; the plutocratic numbered a million. The nobility of the future will be based on quality: on personal value, personal perfection; on completion of the body, the soul, the spirit. Today, on the threshold of a new age, the random starting point is the former hereditary nobility; instead of noble breeds there will be noble individuals: people whose random blood composition elevates them to model types. For this chance nobility of today the new international and inter-social noble race of tomorrow will emerge."
I tell you what: if some Cluesforum member had written the above lines, I'd be very, very worried.

Off to the 'erotic' finale... :rolleyes:
Extract of "PRACTICAL IDEALISM" - by Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (1925)

"All outstanding beauty, power, energy and spirit will be recognized and unite by the secret laws of erotic attraction. Only once the artificial barriers have fallen, the barriers feudalism and capitalism have built between people, then the most important men automatically fall for the most beautiful women and the most prominent women fall for the most perfect men. The more perfect then the physical, psychological, spiritual man will be - the greater the number of women from which he will be able to choose. Only the noblest men, will be free to mate with the finest women, and vice versa - the inferior will have to settle for the inferior. Then free love will be chosen as the erotic life of inferior and mediocre with free marriage. So the new breeding nobility of the future will not emerge from the artificial standards of human caste, but from the divine laws of erotic eugenics. The natural hierarchy of human perfection is to replace the artificial ranking and rid itself of feudalism and capitalism. Socialism, which started with the abolition of the nobility, with the levelling of mankind will culminate in the breeding of the nobility, in the differentiation of humanity. Here, in social eugenics, is the highest historical mission, which is not yet recognized today: to move from unjust inequality through equality to equitable inequality, on the ruins of all the pseudo-aristocracy to a real, new nobility."
So there you have it, Steve. That's Dick Coudenhove-Kalergi for you. He had a plan. The European Union seems to like it - and keeps handing out prizes to those who comply with Dick's 'Paneuropean' plan. Does this answer your questions?

Off to Mars for a lunch break now - back soon, though - see ya!

arc300
Member
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by arc300 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:05 am

Hi, Simon,
My interest in the writings you posted of Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi was piqued by his use of the word "ethics" or "ethical", for example:

"The Jewish prophets of the present are preparing a new world era, in particular to make the Ethical primary: in politics, religion, philosophy and art. From Moses to Weininger ethics is the main problem of Jewish philosophy. In this basic ethical attitude to the world is a root of the unique greatness of the Jewish people ..."
I have only recently been required to examine the differences between "ethics" and "morals" for a paper I'm doing, so I admit my understanding of this topic is still very shallow, but as far as I can tell, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that "ethics" is a euphemism for enforced Group Think.

Ethics are prescribed morals. Ethics tell you what to think and how to behave in a particular context. If you are bound by a Code of Conduct (ie, ethical rules dictating how you are to behave in your workplace) in your workplace, then you are legally obliged to act and think in a certain way, even if it conflicts with your own personal beliefs and values of "right" and "wrong". Ethics are IMPOSED by an AUTHORITY and backed by punitive measures. There is no room for individualism or freedom of thought or behaviour.

Another word that caught my attention in his writing was the word "intellectual":

"An intellectual is a person who engages in critical study, thought, and reflection about the reality of society, and proposes solutions for the normative problems of that society, and, by such discourse in the public sphere, he or she gains authority within the public opinion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual

How about "normative problems"?

"Normative ethics, that part of moral philosophy, or ethics, concerned with criteria of what is morally right and wrong. It includes the formulation of moral rules that have direct implications for what human actions, institutions, and ways of life should be like." http://www.britannica.com/topic/normative-ethics

So, am I going too far if I say that "Dick" is basically telling us that Jews (who, according to Dick, are naturally predisposed to a group-think mentality) and Jewish intellectuals are the Authority which lays down the laws dictating to the unwashed masses how they are to think and behave, how they are to live and what kind of society they are to construct, and that repercussions will follow if an individual dares to allow his own morals to over-ride the ethics imposed by his own particular in-group?

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