90's Operations: Waco, TX - Oklahoma City Bombing

[hoi.polloi]

Here's an old zetaboards thread we have about the 1993 Waco, TX incident that seems to have been conveniently timed with the first WTC "bombing".

"What really happened?" ("...if anything?", I suppose.)

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... wtopic=232

We might also explore the Oklahoma City Bombing and why Simothy McVeigh is scripted to cite Waco as its "anti-government inspiration" (rather than anything else?), and so on. Timothy McVeigh was "killed by execution" on June 11, 2001 (aged 33). Hmm.

[Apache]

Ok, I'll start with Timothy McVeigh and his interview with Michelle Rauch at Waco.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... hwaco.html

I've looked through her statement and we only have her word for it that she even went to Waco, along with a nondescript photo of McVeigh being "interviewed" by her, that doesn't prove anything other than it was a very convenient "coincidence".

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/intervie ... 27a47.html
Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 1996 12:00 am | Updated: 12:27 am, Fri Sep 20, 2013.

"People ask me, `Why didn't you figure it out?'" Rauch told The Associated Press on Sunday, clearly chagrined by her year long delay in recognizing one of the most publicized faces of the last year. McVeigh's mug has appeared on countless newscasts, magazines and newspapers since his arrest within days of the April 19, 1995, bombing.

"I just did not put two and two together, because we have this image of this man -- and the one I talked to was a friendly, personable man," she said. "I feel kind of silly."

She allegedly had a photo taken with McVeigh yet she describes the "image" of a man she met in terms of his character and not of his looks/features. I can point out various stupidities in her "trial" statement, but I can't really see the point of that as her testimony is hearsay anyway.

Does anyone know when McVeigh was linked to Waco? Was it before or after Rauch "remembered" her interview with him (one year later)?

[Apache]

I'll put the question surrounding Timothy McVeigh and his link to Waco to one side for the moment and move on to some of the autopsies of the victims at Waco. I will try to keep it brief and to the point. I've already covered how authentic autopsies will maintain a minimum standard and that if any document has important data missing then it calls into the question the entire pool of "evidence" (see my post here viewtopic.php?f=24&t=230&p=2397573#p2397573).

All the data I used came from Carol Valentine's Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum website

http://www.web-ak.com/waco/

If we take it as read that a time and date of death missing in an autopsy report breaches a minimum acceptable standard, then missing heads that are never found goes far beyond that minimum. My comments are in blue:

Mt. Carmel Doe 32 -- allegedly John-Mark Stanley McBean
Missing head.

Mt. Carmel Doe 59 -- (unidentified) Note: 14 to 19 year old woman, disarticulated at the hips and severely decomposed
The autopsy photo shows a pair of legs only. This body appears to have never been identified. Autopsy states there is a head and torso but there isn't a head on the photo.

Mt. Carmel Doe 74 -- allegedly Melissa Morrison
Female. Black. 7.5 to 8.5 years old. Partial remains; lower extremities only. No head, cranium, thorax, visceral or pelvic organs.

(Mt. Carmel Doe 31 F (unidentified) Note: remains consist of a negroid dread-lock and scalp tissue)

Mt. Carmel Doe 75 -- allegedly Rosemary Morrison
Female. 25-35 years old. Head missing. Not only is the head missing but her first 5 vertebrae are missing as well along with part of the 6th.

Mt. Carmel Doe 67-2 --- allegedly Cyrus Howell (Koresh)
Child. 7.5 to 8.5 years old. No sex listed. Head is missing along with chest and abdominal organs.

Mt. Carmel Doe 51 -- allegedly Judy V. Schneider
Female. 41. Koresh's wife. Star of David necklace. They note a sanitary pad. Skull, cervical spine, thoracic spine, left chest, and left upper extremity absent.

Mt. Carmel Doe 70 -- Mayannah Schneider
Female. 2.5 to 3.5 years old. Entire left upper extremity, shoulder and skull are missing.

(Mt. Carmel Doe 51 A (unidentified) Note: skull of 2 yr. old with disarticulated mandible)

(Mt. Carmel Doe 60 (unidentified) Note: mandible and left humerus from 2 to 4 yr. old child)

Mt. Carmel Doe 67-6 -- allegedly Rachel Sylvia
Female. 14-18. Upper torso absent. Head absent. Right arm absent.

(Mt. Carmel Doe 31 DE (unidentified) Note: remains consist of fragmentary skull of 11-14 yr. old child)

Not accounted for: Mt. Carmel Doe 67-8 -- (unidentified) Note: child's partial skull 13 months old.

In total 8 heads are missing and are not accounted for. Fragmentary skulls found do not match the ages of any of the above people. Apparently not one family member bothered to find out where the remains of their relatives had disappeared to.

[Seattle Scotsman]

It appears more than 1 actor may have been used to portray "David Koresh":


[ADMIN note: official Wikimedia.org picture -hp]



Same guy? The outdoorsman appears to have a wider nose and more drooping eyes. Could just be lighting and squinting; I'm certainly no face analysis expert, but they appear to be different dudes.

Photo 1 above may look like this sans the wig:


[ADMIN note: CLR.net picture -hp]

David Koresh is Moby! Well, probably not, but it does seem to appear that several different actors/agents were used for Koresh.

And why would a devout/militant Christian cult leader have a star of David on his grave?

[SacredCowSlayer]

I haven't done an exhaustive research on this event (OKC Bombing) that "happened" just a couple of hours drive from where I lived at the time.

But my daughter and I recently went through the memorial site https://oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org/people/ and noticed a LOT of all too familiar artifacts. I'll post just a few and ask the more experienced researchers here to make their own observations of this site.
Very interesting stuff!

This is Cheryl E. Hammons:



This is Christy Yolanda Jenkins:



And this is LaKesha Richardson Levy:



If you care to click on the "faces" on the memorial site you will be directed to some extraordinarily drab and flat out embarrassing tributes. I'll add some more later. Enjoy

[SacredCowSlayer]

And here is Michael Carillo:



"He was a happy man, always wearing a smile. Michael Joe Carrillo, 44, grew up in Kansas City, Mo., but had lived in many places since, serving in both the military and the federal government. He was devoted to his work, his family and his country. After spending four years in the Navy, Carrillo enlisted and served four more years in the Army. That was before settling into a career he enjoyed with the Federal Highway Administration. Carrillo and his three teen-age children had lived in Oklahoma City for the last two years, building a life together after losing a loving wife and mother two years ago after an unsuccessful kidney transplant. His family always teased him about being the “Fifth Beatle” because of his love for the British rock group."

Well it certainly is ironic that the only "photo" of him fails to capture that smile he was always wearing.

[SacredCowSlayer]

Let me introduce you to "Robin Ann Huff and Baby", depicted as:



Either the baby has no picture, or her name was Robin Ann Huffandbaby.
No telling what went wrong with that head and those awful ears (or lack thereof?).
They also failed to write so much as a single sentence in her honor. Just a blank page with that head.

[SacredCowSlayer]

This is Zackary Taylor Chavez (age 3):



His tribute:

"Zackary Chavez, 3, had attended America’s Kids day-care center since infancy. His great-grandfather remembered giving him quarters. “When you would give him a quarter, he would always take it to his mom,” Cereaco Hernandez said. Zackary had been cared for by workers at the day-care center inside the Murrah building his entire life. “He was a cute little guy,” said Hernandez of Zackary. “You would try to give him a dollar, and he would say ‘No, no – give me a quarter.’"

What the . . .? Seriously?

[SacredCowSlayer]

Anita Christine Hightower:



So what happened to that patch of hair above her forehead? Is this just a simple photoshop error or what?

[SacredCowSlayer]

This is a dreadful image of Eula Leigh (pronounced "you'll lie"?) Mitchell:



This is just terrible. I'm not sure what else to say.

[hoi.polloi]

Yes, they have that particular Life[less]touch(TM)(R) sort of brand going on, don't they?

Well, they used to be pretty conservative with their morphing/photoshop experiments and only show the bare minimum. 9/11 was obviously an attempt to be more brazen and, despite perhaps their magical thinking, it pretty much only made the same old flaws even bigger and more obvious.

With these tiny pics, it's harder to see yet, but the construction looks eerily familiar. I agree that it may be visual circumstantial evidence the vicsim tech was being futzed with back then. Maybe we should find what we can and add it to our archive of sim terror events: http://terror.septemberclues.info/

[simonshack]

And here is Michael Carillo:



"He was a happy man, always wearing a smile. "

OH, THE (smiling & laughing) HUMANITY !

THE OKLAHOMA CITY MEMORIAL: https://oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org/people/

025ALMON-300x300.jpg
BAYLEE ALMON : "Baylee Almon, who celebrated her first birthday the day before the terrorist bomb took her life, is described by family members as having a loving, heart-filled smile"

012BIDDY-250x250.jpg
OLETA CRISTINE BIDDY: “Oleta Christine Biddy always had a smile on her face, said her sister-in-law, Doris Jennings"

026BELL-250x250.jpg
DANIELLE BELL : “Danielle Bell, 15 months, liked the outdoors and birds. And she liked to smile. “She was just like an angel from God,” said her mother, Deniece Bell, 28. “She always had a smile on her face, and she would do whatever she could to bring one to yours.

015BLOOM-250x250.jpg
OLEN BURL BLOOMER [???] "He was an “average man” who enjoyed telling jokes and laughing, said daughter Maureen Bloomer."

127BRADL-250x250.jpg
PEACHLYN BRADLEY : "Bradley’s great-grandmother, Mary Hill, said the girl “was the laugh of everything."

No smiles in the next tribute - but I just had burst out in coarse laughter myself - reading what the tribute writers came up with for this one :
044BRUCE-250x250.jpg
GABREON DESHAWN LEE BRUCE: "Three-month-old Gabreon DeShawn Lee Bruce was a “lovable” baby, said his great-grandmother, Mary Hill. The family enjoyed holding him, and Hill said she had held the baby exactly one week before the April 19 bombing."

I mean ya know, WHAT does one write in a tribute for a three-month-old baby? 'Hey, let's just write that the family enjoyed HOLDING the thing!'

032CHAFE-250x250.jpg
RONA LINN KUEHNER-CHAFEY : “She was a person who really liked her job. I never saw her without a smile."

063COOPE-250x250.jpg
ANTONIO ANSARA COOPER JR. : ” The 6-month-old was a happy baby who never cried and loved to laugh, said his father, Antonio Cooper Sr. “He’d make himself laugh by playing with his toys,” the father said."

038COTTI-250x250.jpg
HARLEY RICHARD COTTINGHAM: "To friends and co-workers, he was a “positive person … who was always happy and who was able to raise the spirits of co-workers when they were down."

080COVER-250x250.jpg081COVER-250x250.jpg
AARON & ELIJAH COVERDALE: "Brothers Aaron Coverdale, 5, and Elijah Coverdale, 2, were well-loved by their relatives. After the bombing, their father, Keith Coverdale, walked the streets holding photos of his smiling children, asking if anyone had seen them."

082COYNE-250x250.jpg
JACI RAE COYNE: "Her father said Jaci also liked to have her picture taken, and she would hug everyone she met. “She was an extremely happy baby, full of laughter,” he said."

No smiles or laughter in this next tribute : however, the crassness of its 'substance' - and its absurd brevity - are quite tragicomical...
046DAVIS-250x251.jpg
"Sgt. Benjamin L. Davis, 29, was a good kid, a U.S. Marine comrade said. “He was always motivated. Even when he answered the telephone,” a Marine at an Oklahoma City recruiting substation said." [NOTE: Yup, this is the FULL tribute for Benjamin L. Davis! - check it out for yourself!]

047DAY-250x250.jpg
DIANA LYNN DAY [what's in a name? ] : “Probably everybody would tell you that she just always had a smile on her face,” Thomas said of Day, 38."

115GOTTS-250x250.jpg
KEVIN “LEE” GOTTSHALL II: "Whether he was pulling down his curtains, running over his puppy with his walker or spitting green beans at his mother, all he had to do was smile and his parents’ hearts would melt. He was curious and enjoyed seeing new people and things, and he was always happy and laughing."

066HAMMO-250x250.jpg
CHERYL E. HAMMONS: "She was a pleasant person who smiled and joked a lot but could also be serious, said her sister, Donnia Banks."

Yup - don't be fooled by that smile, folks - the lady could also be serious!

067HARDI-250x250.jpg
RONALD VERNON HARDING, SR.: “While visiting my sister at a nursing home I dozed off to sleep,” she said. “When I woke up, Ron was standing over me smiling.”

083JENKI-250x250.jpg
CHRISTI YOLANDA JENKINS: “Christi was hardworking, diligent and always smiling. That describes her best,” Baldridge said.

084JOHNS-250x250.jpg
NORMA JEAN JOHNSON: "At quarter-horse shows, Norma Jean Johnson was known for the smile on her face and her willingness to help all exhibitors."

132KENNE-250x250.jpg
BLAKE RYAN KENNEDY: "He was always happy. He was always smiling. He was the perfect child, Steve Kennedy said."

095LEVY-250x250.jpg
LAKESHA RICHARDSON LEVY: "Levy always had a joke to tell and brought smiles to everyone’s faces, Johnson said. "

133LONDO-250x251.jpg
DOMINIQUE RAVAE (JOHNSON)-LONDON : "Everyone was crazy about Dominique. He was just my baby. He had you laughing."

No smiles in the next tribute - but the sheer silliness of the below sentence is rather hilarious...
109MCKIN-250x250.jpg
LINDA G. MCKINNEY: “She was outgoing and friendly and never met anyone she didn’t like." - [her grieving husband is quoted as saying]

126RIDLE-250x250.jpg
KATHRYN ELIZABETH RIDLEY: "Kathryn Ridley, 24, was always smiling and loved to laugh. The sound of her laughter is what the family will miss most, Jacqueline Ridley said."

129ROSAS-250x249.jpg
CHRISTY ROSAS: "Christy “always made people happy,” said her husband."

Another one being remembered - for how she answered the telephone...
135SELLS-250x249.jpg
LEORA LEE SELLS: "Sells, a legal secretary for Housing and Urban Development, also was known for her friendliness when answering the telephone."

And another - most bizzarre - 'telephone-answering' tribute...
144VTHOM-250x250.jpg
VIRGINIA M. THOMPSON: “Logic would tell you she would be answering the phone at her desk at 9:02,” Phil said." [Note: 9:02 would be the time of the explosion]

156RWALK-250x250.jpg
DAVID JACK WALKER: "The environmental specialist with Housing and Urban Development was “a funny man with a big heart,” his wife said. “He laughed all the time.”

158WEAVE-300x300.jpg
MICHAEL D. WEAVER: "Weaver’s laughter, dry sense of humor and role of the “straight man” will always be remembered by his family."

[UNreal]

[SacredCowSlayer]

And here is a quite hilarious lady named Judy J. (Froh) Fisher:

054FISHE-250x250.jpg

Clearly this was never meant to be read by anyone. In any event here it is.

"For about four months, Judy Fisher had been exercising her shopping talents. While her husband, Marlon Fisher was doing most of the physical remodeling of their home, Judy Fisher was busy picking out colors and supervising the project. The remodeling is about three-fourths finished, said her sister-in-law, Angie Jones. The most important part of Fisher’s life, however, was her family. She had three children and a stepdaughter, and they often went camping together, Jones said. Fisher, 45, attended Community Bible Church and was involved in a prayer chain group. She worked for Housing and Urban Development."

Got it everyone? This happy worker (with a clown face) from HUD (a rare and unlikely person to begin with) was married to a Marlon Fisher and they were all about remodeling their house, camping, and by the way she was in a prayer chain at church. The end. What a sweet story.

[SacredCowSlayer]

I suppose this topic wouldn't be complete without formal nominations for the Pat/Gender Confused Award nominees.

Without further ado, I'll introduce you to our contestants:

Cassandra Kay Booker


Rheta Bender Long


Lola Bolden


Robbin Ann Huff and Baby


And finally, Peter R. Avillanoza


I'll let the mods decide if and how the votes should be tallied.

Atrocious would be a kind word to describe this "memorial" site.

Perhaps I'll take a field trip to the memorial museum in OKC soon. If I can convince my daughter to keep a straight face while we are there I might take her. Maybe I'll learn something.

Note: Special thanks to Simon for jumping right in here and gushing so much so fast! It would have taken me many hours to get that much posted. Also, I may need a tutorial on how to resize images.