How many flights were permitted on 9/11/2001?

[hoi.polloi]

Everyone, I believe, is aware of the official story of the "shut down" of all flights after the 4 reported "plane crashes".

We also have an ongoing debate about how many vicsims (by definition a vicsim is a collection of identifying information meant to prove the publicized death of an individual that doesn't necessarily need to be someone who ever existed in real life) have "real-life counterparts" or who really existed but may not have died in the manner of deaths reported by the media (i.e.; building fires, building collapses, plane crashes, or search and rescue), if they even died at all.

Some "9/11 victims", it has been speculated, might have opted to lend their identity to the military operation in order to "serve America" and receive some personal benefits or respond to an obligation in the manner that violent organizations pressure people to join in covert operations.

The question has always been how the plan would have allowed real life people to escape the scene unnoticed.

Now we have learned enough about human psychology from these events to make the reasonable supposition that people do not pay attention very well, particularly when distracted and traumatized (which can be calculated by someone hijacking your fight-or-flight response). Yet, it's possible the military wanted to "play it safe" and only do things under cover.

Not that the official story must always by definition have a lie hidden in it (as likely as that seems to those of us trying to follow the news and seeing how much it covers up the truth), but it does make a degree of sense that as flights were being shut down, certain flights were permitted.

I would like to ask if anyone thinks it's possible that flights (other than those reported) would have been used during the major news cycle distraction of "plane crashes" and "building collapses" and most laughable of all "terrorism investigations" (that involved mainly reading obvious scripts).

If they had been, could these speculative flights be the few allowed to help a number of volunteers (who lent their identities to create vicsim stories) escape to other parts of the world?

If we consider this question a moment, perhaps the Loose Change unproven speculation of "victims landing in a plane in a NASA hangar" and Michael Moore's repeating of the "Saudi family allowed to fly out of the USA" is actually a distraction (or a hint, depending on how you feel) that there were more flights than that. Perhaps such flights flew to Cuba or Hawaii or DC or another edge location/State/protectorate to distribute runaways to the rest of the world — predetermined places they wanted to go. Could it be possible?

Perhaps by now people in history who have accomplished such "escapes" have made their way back to their homes now and then, since they found out people don't pay attention, or maybe they moved to military "safe cities" or maybe just another peaceful life somewhere. But in any case, just something to chew on. We don't know (and we will probably never know) but I wonder if this is another reason we do not have whistle blowers.

[Flabbergasted]

...people don't pay attention...

That´s quite true.

Moreover, before social media became a truly effective means of spreading news, those who sighted officially deceased people were naturally prevented from sharing it ... or would prefer no to for fear of being equated with deranged devotees of Elvisism.

Speaking of escaping the scene unnoticed, a month ago seven members of the Araguaia guerilla, who were declared dead in 1974 and whose families have since collected considerable compensations from the Brazilian government, were discovered to be alive. According to one historian (Hugo Studart), the military had orders to kill armed combatants, but when one of these was found to be the prodigal son and nephew of two top brass in the Navy, the military resorted to a contingency plan. The young man and another six captured peers (witnesses) were given new identities and relocated. At least, that is what the historian claims to have uncovered. In any case, the Soviet-sounding "National Truth Commission" (a propaganda arm of the Lula-Dilma syndicate) was not very happy with the publication of the story!

edit: minor correction

[antipodean]

Because it took off from New York, It's possible flight 93 could have been used

to help a number of volunteers (who lent their identities to create vicsim stories) escape to other parts of the world?

Via Cleveland's International John Hopkins Airport

In this site below it is mistakenly inferred flight 93 took off from Boston.I think a lot of people have forgotten that a 9/11 flight took off from New York.
https://911justicehalifax.wordpress.com ... s-airport/

[SacredCowSlayer]

Not that the official story must always by definition have a lie hidden in it (as likely as that seems to those of us trying to follow the news and seeing how much it covers up the truth), but it does make a degree of sense that as flights were being shut down, certain flights were permitted.

I would like to ask if anyone thinks it's possible that flights (other than those reported) would have been used during the major news cycle distraction of "plane crashes" and "building collapses" and most laughable of all "terrorism investigations" (that involved mainly reading obvious scripts).

If they had been, could these speculative flights be the few allowed to help a number of volunteers (who lent their identities to create vicsim stories) escape to other parts of the world?

If we consider this question a moment, perhaps the Loose Change unproven speculation of "victims landing in a plane in a NASA hangar" and Michael Moore's repeating of the "Saudi family allowed to fly out of the USA" is actually a distraction (or a hint, depending on how you feel) that there were more flights than that. Perhaps such flights flew to Cuba or Hawaii or DC or another edge location/State/protectorate to distribute runaways to the rest of the world — predetermined places they wanted to go. Could it be possible?

Perhaps by now people in history who have accomplished such "escapes" have made their way back to their homes now and then, since they found out people don't pay attention, or maybe they moved to military "safe cities" or maybe just another peaceful life somewhere. But in any case, just something to chew on. We don't know (and we will probably never know) but I wonder if this is another reason we do not have whistle blowers.

Hoi,

First of all, I’m relieved to see you posting. I haven’t read CF since last weekend, and the Chatbox had me unusually worried. CF wouldn’t be CF without you. Though I’m sure our friendship would exist apart from it.

Okay, you raise an interesting question with regard to flights during the “flight shutdown.” I don’t see any reason that it would be necessary for the perps to do that. But then again, I don’t have any reason to think such an opportunity would be wasted if it was deemed necessary (for some reason).

I’m convinced that the person known as “Barbara Olson” could easily be walking around in broad daylight in Washington DC with little more than a different hair color/style along with a different ID. Note: I don’t have any reason to think that’s the case. It’s just an example of something I find plausible.

Once someone is said to be dead, that issue doesn’t really get revisited. At least not until far too late anyway.

Plus, even if you and I spotted her and took pictures/video- well, it wouldn’t be considered “legit” by the public at large unless an alphabet “news” agency ran the story.

That’s the same trouble with the lack of “whistleblowers.” There may be some, if an authentic and independent media actually existed. But any such person even inclined to “come forward” would undoubtedly know this before even attempting.

I don’t think the efforts have to be all that drastic or sophisticated to “work” well right out in the open. It seems to me that any otherwise sensitive information is tightly controlled, and the few leaky faucets that crop up from time to time get drown out or shut off before any actual damage is done.

It doesn’t take long for things to get scrubbed, and people “put in their place” from the little I have experienced in one form or another. That said, I would love to be a person who could finally pierce through and take down a massive lie.

Thank you for all your work and insight over the years. And don’t lose heart my dear friend. You aren’t alone.

[Faye]

I allow myself to write this little comment although i am a new researcher and maybe my speculations have already been thought by someone of you yearlong researchers, in which case i apologize in advance.

There is a deep confusion about the 9/11 story which has to do possibly with the constant engagement it needs to put things back into the linear time order after having been traumatized in one way or the other by the "unfolding" of the "event" on that day or by the repetition of the "trauma" over many years.

In reality, i think, we should separate completely the story as presented by the official narrators and try to reconstruct the time order as it must have been starting with our (hypothetical) facts: No attacks took place on 9/11, neither by planes nor by other means.

The crucial point of the official narrative and the reality is: Air traffic must be shut down - and actually every other military restriction on transportation, information, etc. as layed out in the relevant procedure in cases of "state of emergency".

I think it is reasonable to say that the procedures of emergency were initialized according to the psyOp concept at the planned time and that the air traffic was in fact shut down. So commercial air traffic in fact must have been rerouted if already outbound.

For the alleged victims, other participants, witnesses of the "live event" (which was recorded prior to that point in time) it would not be necessary in any way to be transfered by airplane on that day.

The story about the NASA hangar was also part of the movie by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Olivier "Operation Terror" (2012) - which is an inside-job missile-attacks controlled opposition narrative were the hangar plot is used to eliminate the passengers and crew of one of the alleged flights...

[antipodean]

For the alleged victims, other participants, witnesses of the "live event" (which was recorded prior to that point in time) it would not be necessary in any way to be transfered by airplane on that day.

But at the same time they can't have disappeared before 9/11.
So they absconded to somewhere, after departing their families for a normal day at the office.

What's interesting about the Australian victims aboard flights AA11 & 77 is that they were (as well as some US Nationals) to connect with an outward bound Qantas LA to Sydney flight.
But somewhat conveniently this flight was probably going to be grounded anyway, because of pending Industrial action by Qantas employees.
https://www.securitysolutionsmedia.com/ ... tember-11/

I would love to be able to check the flight manifest of the first Qantas LA to Sydney flight (to cross reference with names on AA11 & 77) following 9/11.
This was briefly discussed over at Fakeologist.
http://fakeologist.com/forums/topic/dea ... ost-848697

http://fakeologist.com/forums/topic/dea ... 1/page/11/

[Faye]

Thank you, Antipodean. Yes, it is my fault and you are right that some of the characters must have had to stay until the “event” and disappear afterwards. A precondition for that would be though, that these characters were real persons with real people networks (family, friends, etc.) and that the latter were not IN in the plot.

I am a beginner of 9/11 studies but according to the data of the Vicsim Report most of the characters presented as victims are artificial characters with artificial networks.

It makes sense in such a complex operation to try to keep the variable parameters as few as possible by having complete control over the characters involved, which is possible to achieve, when they are artificial.

Maybe we should create a list of names of the characters involved (as victims, survivors, witnesses “on the ground”, “volunteers”, etc.), that fulfil the conditions which would have made it necessary for them to be relocated on the day or afterwards, in order to collect all information and research it further.

As for the shut-down and the possibly allowed flights, I think logistically it does not make sense to allow flights during a shut-down. It involves too many error chances and it does not seem unavoidably necessary to me.

[hoi.polloi]

But at the same time they can't have disappeared before 9/11.
So they absconded to somewhere, after departing their families for a normal day at the office.

I agree with this perspective, antipodean.

I think the struggle is for us to consider that 9/11 may have actually been a massive operation compared with the relatively tiny "terror attacks" of the day.

There are many things suggesting that 9/11/2001 was the true date for just such a massive operation, involving every U.S. military, every U.S. authority, and with their allies being "tipped off" before the event as well, while the entire traumatized, daydreaming, imperially dominated world was distracted by little more than a movie. We can go into those "things" in other threads, but just to name a couple: the sheer number of authoritative positions reported vacated that day (and occupied by mere interns or trainees "by coincidence"); and the evidence collected on SeptemberClues.info and this site that the news stations and airline corporations were united by an authority higher than themselves. I now think it's naive when I've suggested that the media is the culprit rather than a tool.

On the other hand I agree with SacredCowSlayer that in certain cases you can actually just have a NASA Challenger type situation where a few of the "disappeared" may have become almost entirely socially invisible even though they didn't really go much of anywhere. This would only work on a case by case basis, I am sure. People are good at keeping secrets, and that is the true power of these operations. The fakery gives people an excuse to believe liars.

[aa5]

Thinking about it there are many exemptions that would be needed.

-supplies for workers in remote resource industry jobs
-refueling for unmanned generators at like telecommunications sites
-medical emergency air transport
-foreign 'emissaries'

[hoi.polloi]

The military has a supply chain for running missions. Thanks to "Truman's mission" to set up US military bases around the world, it could be that the first landing of any of these (speculative) planes was at WORLDCOM type bases, which would also have the connections to integrate into foreign societies. That could be the logical emissary role. I understand this thread is highly speculative, but to accompany the "electronic jamming" and "smoke screen" and other speculations about the military secrets behind the actual operation on 9/11/2001, I think this is a fair and realistic addition.

[aa5]

If I was a senior military/intelligence official I would use 911 to test out various security things. Like presumably when they halted all air travel, issues did come up that were unforeseen. And afterwards they made administrative type changes.