Engineering disease

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.

Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby Observer on Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 am

Kham wrote:... by cleaning out and making fluid the lymph system, which allows those hard packed lymph nodes to finally process their loads of damaged cells sending their output down the line as well as getting the kidneys to once again filter at optimum capacity.


Hi Kham :) Could you please altruistically summarize the top concrete actions recommended: to clean out the lymph system, to make the lymph system fluid again, to allow those hard packed lymph nodes to finally process their loads of damaged cells, to allow those hard packed lyph nodes to finally send their output down the line, and to get the kidneys to once again filter at optimum capacity.

(Please folks, let's not argue about whether Dr. Morse or whoever Kham likes is a shill/saint/idiot/genius/good/bad/whatever, I simply want to learn Kham's summary of the recommended ACTIONS we can can take to clean out our lymph system (for example, rubbing food-safe baking-soda directly on lymph nodes to raise the pH to allow more oxygenation of the blood in those areas, or eating certain foods which help clean out the lymph system in general, or whatever the recommended actions may be.) I would be grateful Kham if you could summarize what you have learned from your many hours of lymph-system-cleaning research and probable personal experimentation.)

I'll go ahead and admit here and now, that although I am a super-light 60kg (183cm) 40-something super-healthy individual, I also happen to have a non-painful, non-growing, non-problem, enlarged throat thyroid it seems, which suddenly enlarged itself immediately after a scary car accident 10 years ago, and which SharpStuff's very first post on this thread might rightly point towards being a combination of emotional issues "Larynx – Conflict of fear and fright" and/or "Lymph Glands - Loss of self-worth associated with the [in this case: speaking, communication, being trusted, voice] location" (Although nobody was injured in the accident, I had to use my voice, in a foreign language, in a culture where foreigners are highly distrusted and disliked, in a 99.9% conviction rate court system, to avoid being imprisoned for that car accident, yet fortunately against-the-odds succeeded in being trusted and forgiven and not sent to prison, thank goodness), and/or perhaps my body adapted to the stressful situation by producing a good thing, an enlarged throat thyroid, yay, bigger and stronger, which perhaps has helped me ever since, to be healthier than I would have without it, haha, so I'm definitely NOT thinking of ever visiting any doctors who would no doubt demand first x-raying [great, thanks, the mere worry of cancer initiates the use of a machine which causes cancer, no thanks], then attacking, cutting, burning, petro-chemical-drugging, using fear-tactics, negative thought insertion, new stress, cost stress, pushing family to push me to allow the butcher techniques to be employed, etc.)

I see my situation in a very positive way: either I have gained a superman blessing of an enlarged throat thyroid, yay, gratitude, or this is a nice non-painful visually-obvious sign of a need to increase my health through moving more and eating better, in which case again, yay, gratitude, and I am also open to the possibility of it being a hard-packed lymph-node containing damaged cells from the stress of the accident and remaining blocked-up ever since, so yeah I of course want to start eating more of whatever cleans out the lymph system.

Again, I have no pain, I have no problem, I actually like the idea that the car accident stress suddenly encouraged my body (my throat thyroid, the immune system controller) to have made itself stronger as a positive adaption, but anyway: EVEN IF this throat bump has absolutely nothing to do with lymph system cleaning, I STILL am becoming interested in the idea of lymph system cleaning, it makes sense that our septic system should not be blocked-up anywhere, so again:

I would be grateful Kham if you could summarize what you have learned from your many hours of lymph-system-cleaning research and probable personal experimentation.

Even just a few points, "Do this, that, and the other, and maybe try action Z too, for lymph-system-cleaning" would be fine. Thanks! :)

And folks, let's hear various health advice perspectives and action priorities, without rudely accusing of shillery or idiotry in this thread. :)

If the lymph-system-cleaning involves increasing raw fruit/veggies ratio, fine, those who also know fat is vital should simply add vital fat. :)

All our intelligent goodhearted members have various good usable bits of advice which readers are free to consider, or ignore, to try, or not try. :)

Edit: PS - "Doctors" & "lawyers" seem to have legal monopolies on giving health & legal advice, so no need to take the legal RISK of "giving health advice".

I guess to avoid lawsuits one cannot say "you should do X", but instead can say "I would do X" or "Some have found doing action X helps achieve benefit Y..."
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby pov603 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:19 am

Sounds like a good idea Observer...
Over to Kham?...
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby Kham on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:49 pm

Observer and pov603,

Summarize I shall. Give me a few days, if you wouldn’t mind.

Thank you for your interest!
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby patrix on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:13 am

The Cancer Treatment Scam

Assuming the Nutwork has intentionally increased cancer rates and the other so called western diseases, how have they accomplished this, assuming the fungi-cancer hypothesis has any merit to it?

If we look at the space hoax and one of the figures introducing it to the world, we can see the same character involved in the cancer question. In 1971, "Tricky Dick" Nixon announced the "war" on cancer, and funnelled vast amounts of tax dollars into it.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2dzEDnGqHY

I hypothesize that medicine is just as militarized as media, and that prior to this announcement, the military Nutwork had researched both how to increase cancer rates, and devised "treatments" that would increase the likelihood of patients dying from them.

By promoting harmful vegetable oils and a lower intake of fat, and thus a higher intake of carbohydrates that started in the 70s, they have created a state of increased cell damage, a weakened immune system, and higher blood sugar levels in the population. Said combination of factors promote an environment of inflammatory fungal overgrowth, which cancer may be argued to be a last line defense against (see my previous post "The Fungi-Cancer hypothesis"). Many vaccines, drugs, and food chemicals probably contribute to the same underlying cause, or worse, accomplish this insidious objective.

So called “radiation therapy” increases cell death, and enables the fungi to feed on the glucose contained therein. This carries the risk of breaching the containment of the infection that the body has created (via a tumor), thus enabling it to spread to other parts of the body.

Similarly, cell poison most likely enables, and indeed furthers infection, thus ultimately leading to death. When chemo therapy is administered, the doctor (who is of course acting in good faith in accordance with his/her training) will typically inform the paitent as to the varying degrees of “survival” chances, and accordingly give a prognosis. I think that the “therapy” itself contributes more to premature death than the cancer itself in such circumstances.

Nevertheless, during chemo therapy, tumors will typically disappear, since the cancer cells are already weaker than regular (or healthy) cells, and thus susceptible to the cell poison. But, if the purpose of tumors is to contain and suffocate an infection, then this only paves the way for even further infection.

It is common in the course of chemo therapy for the tumors to disappear, and for the patient to temporarily “recover,” only to die later because of metastasized terminal cancer in accordance with the doctor’s prognosis. Cancer is portrayed as a mostly incurable disease, when it is probably the conventional treatments that make it so.

Biopsies are performed in order to see what "type" of cancer the patient is suffering from, so that a "tailor made" treatment may be devised. This is also problematic, since (during the biopsy) they puncture the containment (tumor) the body has created, thereby increasing the risk of the infection spreading through the bloodstream. The same risks may be said about the surgical removal of tumors.

Moreover, these "treatments" invariably cause stress and trauma to the patient, which of course impairs the ability of the body to fight the infection.

If the assumption that vegetable oils and an overall reduction of fat intake promotes cancer, then doing the reverse would seem to be the best prevention.

When an animal becomes ill, it will typically stop eating and drinking. I think everyone has experienced loss of appetite when sick. Accordingly, I think fasting and rest is the most efficient treatment for most diseases, including cancer.

And it has been observed with alternative cancer treatments that a lower food intake (or even a complete, but temporary, relief from digestion) seems quite beneficial. I agree with professor Seyfried that a so called calorie restricted ketogenic diet is best suited.

Others promote various kinds of vegetarian diets which I think may be beneficial, so long as they don't contain high amounts of starch and sugar, both of which tend to raise blood sugar levels. This is of course problematic since sugar is the source of fuel for the fungi infection.

I would argue that since conventional “treatments” are so counterproductive, almost any type of alternative treatment significantly increases the likelihood of surviving cancer. In other words, I think the avoidance of conventional treatment methods is perhaps the primary reason that so many alternative treatments have been observed to be effective.

All the best, and may reason prevail. /patrix

Disclaimer: This is speculation, and not medical advice. But if it has any merit then we are of course in a world of hurt. I wish for a world where people are not intentionally made sick, both in body and in mind. I believe that would be a better world to live in for everyone, including me and the ones I care about.
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby Observer on Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:28 pm

[Admin Notice by SCS: Dear Observer, if you would kindly edit the post below to be more “reader friendly,” I will be happy to move it back to the “Engineering Disease” thread. As it stands now, it is extraordinarily hard on the eyes.

Perhaps delete the inserted links at the top (to the entire topic), and then consider how you may want to break up very long sentences into multiple ones. Then add more paragraphs. I’m honestly not trying to be picky here. And I sincerely thank you and our other (participating) members for productively and graciously engaging one another on this topic. It is a healthy turnaround to be sure. Sincerely, SCS :) ]


[Reply by Observer: Dear SCS, you're right about the fact my long-sentences needed to be broken up into multiple sentences, with more paragraph breaks added, to be more reader friendly. Thank you for kindly pointing that out. I duly did that now.

Please allow my nice summary which gives thanks to ALL the posts in this thread to stand. It reminds everyone all the many times the many members here have altruistically spent energy again and again trying to help each other on this vital issue. How about I compromise by making that summary smaller.

Finally, I feel my final paragraphs really got to the root of the debate here: non-animal eaters are righteously trying to avoid acid, while non-fruit eaters are righteously trying to avoid sweets, and that an agreeable middle path of healthy high alkaline exists for everyone. Thank you for your consideration. :) ]



patrix wrote:The Cancer Treatment Scam

Assuming the Nutwork has intentionally increased cancer rates and the other so-called western diseases, how have they accomplished this, assuming the fungi-cancer hypothesis has any merit to it?

If we look at the space hoax and one of the figures introducing it to the world, we can see the same character involved in the cancer question. In 1971, "Tricky Dick" Nixon announced the "war" on cancer, and funneled vast amounts of tax dollars into it.

I hypothesize that medicine is just as militarized as media, and that prior to this announcement, the military Nutwork had researched both how to increase cancer rates, and devised "treatments" that would increase the likelihood of patients dying from them.

By promoting harmful vegetable oils and a lower intake of fat, and thus a higher intake of carbohydrates that started in the 70s, they have created a state of increased cell damage, a weakened immune system, and higher blood sugar levels in the population. Said combination of factors promote an environment of inflammatory fungal overgrowth, which cancer may be argued to be a last line defense against (see my previous post "The Fungi-Cancer hypothesis"). Many vaccines, drugs, and food chemicals probably contribute to the same underlying cause, or worse, accomplish this insidious objective.

So-called “radiation therapy” increases cell death, and enables the fungi to feed on the glucose contained therein. This carries the risk of breaching the containment of the infection that the body has created (via a tumor), thus enabling it to spread to other parts of the body.

Similarly, cell poison most likely enables, and indeed furthers infection, thus ultimately leading to death. When chemo therapy is administered, the doctor (who is of course acting in good faith in accordance with his/her training) will typically inform the patient as to the varying degrees of “survival” chances, and accordingly give a prognosis. I think that the “therapy” itself contributes more to premature death than the cancer itself in such circumstances.

Nevertheless, during chemo therapy, tumors will typically disappear, since the cancer cells are already weaker than regular (or healthy) cells, and thus susceptible to the cell poison. But, if the purpose of tumors is to contain and suffocate an infection, then this only paves the way for even further infection.

It is common in the course of chemo therapy for the tumors disappear, and for the patient to temporarily “recover,” only to die later because of metastasized terminal cancer in accordance with the doctor’s prognosis. Cancer is portrayed as a mostly incurable disease, when it is probably the conventional treatments that make it so.

Biopsies are performed in order to see what "type" of cancer the patient is suffering from, so that a "tailor made" treatment may be devised. This is also problematic, since (during the biopsy) they puncture the containment (tumor) the body has created, thereby increasing the risk of the infection spreading through the bloodstream. The same risks may be said about the surgical removal of tumors.

Moreover, these "treatments" invariably cause stress and trauma to the patient, which of course impairs the ability of the body to fight the infection.

If the assumption that vegetable oils and an overall reduction of fat intake promotes cancer, then doing the reverse would seem to be the best prevention.

When an animal becomes ill, it will typically stop eating and drinking. I think everyone has experienced loss of appetite when sick. Accordingly, I think fasting and rest is the most efficient treatment for most diseases, including cancer.

And it has been observed with alternative cancer treatments that a lower food intake (or even a complete, but temporary, relief from digestion) seems quite beneficial. I agree with professor Seyfried that a so-called calorie restricted ketogenic diet is best suited.

Others promote various kinds of vegetarian diets which I think may be beneficial, so long as they don't contain high amounts of starch and sugar, both of which tend to raise blood sugar levels. This is of course problematic since sugar is the source of fuel for the fungi infection.

I would argue that since conventional “treatments” are so counterproductive, almost any type of alternative treatment significantly increases the likelihood of surviving cancer. In other words, I think the avoidance of conventional treatment methods is perhaps the primary reason that so many alternative treatments have been observed to be effective.

All the best, and may reason prevail. /patrix

Disclaimer: This is speculation, and not medical advice. But if it has any merit then we are of course in a world of hurt. I wish for a world where people are not intentionally made sick, both in body and in mind. I believe that would be a better world to live in for everyone, including me and the ones I care about.



Nice. :)

Thank you Patrix, for your beautiful summary. :)

(And thanks SharpStuff for your good original thread start: reducing emotional conflicts increases the body's ability to self-heal.)
(SharpStuff kindly started this thread to justly point out: modern "allopathic" medicine is a hoax/scam/entrepreneurial industry.)
(SharpStuff's original point still stands here: don't be fooled by the hoaxers' claims, such as "germs", "viruses", or even "diseases".)
(SharpStuff wisely advised: reduce conflict, heal emotional trauma, maintain a healthy mind/body, and let the mind/body heal itself.)
(& natural diet, sunlight, meditation, baking-soda, Essiac-tea, Vitamin-C, Tender-Loving-Care: help maintain a self-healing mind/body.)
(I want to give respect to the thread starter, and hope he can forgive us for trying to figure out the "recipe ratio" details of natural diet.)


(And thanks for every post on this thread: sharpstuff, Flabbergasted, Seneca, sharpstuff, pov603, Seneca, ICfreely, kickstones, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, Ataraxia, sharpstuff, kickstones, ICfreely, arc300, sharpstuff, pov603, ICfreely, sharpstuff, Seneca, sharpstuff, pov603, sharpstuff, pov603, sharpstuff, CluedIn, CluedIn, kickstones, Seneca, sharpstuff, Seneca, kickstones, kickstones, simonshack, kickstones, brianv, kickstones, sharpstuff, Apache, kickstones, kickstones, Fake Eater, pov603, sharpstuff, CluedIn, kickstones, Apache, fubarfuthark, kickstones, sharpstuff, sharpstuff, Apache, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, CluedIn, sharpstuff, CluedIn, hoi.polloi, CluedIn, sharpstuff, ICfreely, ICfreely, sharpstuff, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, Equivoque, ICfreely, arc300, starfish prime, ICfreely, ICfreely, Equivoque, starfish prime, sharpstuff, Intothevoid, ICfreely, fbenario, ICfreely, Seneca, CluedIn, aa5, ICfreely, SacredCowSlayer, aa5, ICfreely, HonestlyNow, ICfreely, aa5, ICfreely, aa5, HonestlyNow, aa5, HonestlyNow, ICfreely, aa5, ICfreely, ICfreely, ShaneG, ICfreely, pov603, aa5, ICfreely, HonestlyNow, aa5, simonshack, HonestlyNow, Farcevalue, sharpstuff, aa5, ICfreely, ICfreely, aa5, MrSinclair, hoi.polloi, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, PianoRacer, aa5, pov603, hoi.polloi, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, pov603, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, brianv, hoi.polloi, ICfreely, CluedIn, patrix, CluedIn, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, HonestlyNow, patrix, ICfreely, patrix, hoi.polloi, aa5, patrix, ICfreely, SacredCowSlayer, ICfreely, McKoga, fbenario, sharpstuff, dblitz, sharpstuff, dblitz, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, HonestlyNow, dblitz, hoi.polloi, PianoRacer, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, Flabbergasted, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, HonestlyNow, kickstones, aa5, patrix, aa5, simonshack, pov603, simonshack, agraposo, fbenario, aa5, agraposo, aa5, Seneca, aa5, patrix, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, agraposo, HonestlyNow, agraposo, HonestlyNow, patrix, agraposo, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, patrix, HonestlyNow, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, patrix, HonestlyNow, agraposo, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, patrix, aa5, agraposo, agraposo, aa5, Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter, HonestlyNow, Peter, agraposo, agraposo, Peter, agraposo, Peter, Peter, agraposo, agraposo, Peter, Peter, Peter, sharpstuff, Peter, sharpstuff, Peter, aa5, agraposo, aa5, agraposo, Peter, Peter, agraposo, aa5, aa5, agraposo, Peter, Peter, Seneca, Peter, aa5, Peter, agraposo, Seneca, Peter, sharpstuff, aa5, aa5, aa5, agraposo, Peter, agraposo, Peter, Peter, agraposo, aa5, aa5, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, simonshack, agraposo, simonshack, kickstones, agraposo, agraposo, pov603, patrix, agraposo, The_White_Lodge, patrix, The_White_Lodge, patrix, The_White_Lodge, patrix, The_White_Lodge, Peter, Kham, Peter, Peter, Peter, Flabbergasted, Peter, Flabbergasted, HonestlyNow, Peter, Kham, patrix, Kham, patrix, HonestlyNow, dblitz, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, patrix, Kham, Peter, Peter, Kham, Peter, Kham, Kham, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, Kham, Peter, Peter, Kham, Kham, patrix, HonestlyNow, agraposo, patrix, pov603, sharpstuff, patrix, Peter, agraposo, Peter, patrix, HonestlyNow, simonshack, sharpstuff, Peter, Peter, Peter, simonshack, PianoRacer, nonhocapito, patrix, HonestlyNow, hoi.polloi, patrix, MrSinclair, nonhocapito, hoi.polloi, aa5, patrix, aa5, patrix, HonestlyNow, SacredCowSlayer, HonestlyNow, SacredCowSlayer, patrix, aa5, pov603, patrix, SacredCowSlayer, simonshack, SacredCowSlayer, Observer, pov603, patrix, Observer, sharpstuff, patrix, Observer, patrix, Observer, patrix, Observer, aa5, Kham, Observer, patrix, SacredCowSlayer, Kham, Observer, pov603, Kham, patrix, Observer)

By the way, while reading EVERY single post made in this thread, in chronological order, from start to present, to painstakingly compile that summary list of gratitude directly above, I noticed a few things:

Just as in the world of 9/11 where we started out merely pointing out the fact that the official story, official footage, and official victims, were all fake. Then of course folks naturally gained confidence to state opinions about what actually happened: normal controlled demolition of totally empty WTC, military smoke obscuration machines, and electronic jamming prevention of real footage. So that's a natural progression from pointing out the proven LIES to hypothesizing about the most probable TRUTH.

So too, in this thread, we can see the same natural progression. This thread started out merely pointing out the fact that official "diseases", official "treatments", and official "foods" are wrong LIES, all engineered by those who profit from our dis-ease. And then of course folks naturally gained confidence to state opinions about the TRUTH of we should do to be healthy... and that's where the arguments begin.

I noticed people got the impression that Patrix was pushing us to eat animals, a stance which obviously can not be endorsed by those who know animal flesh is acidic and thus unhealthy. But it turns out Patrix’s main point is actually much more agreeable: minimize or cut altogether grains, eat fat whether from animals/eggs/dairy or seeds or plants, your choice, fat is fat, just don't eat PROCESSED vegetable oils, eat lots of vegetables, but don't eat high-starch vegetables, and eat a little fruit, but not too much sweet fruit because sugar makes things rotten.

And for those who know dairy is only natural for babies (and unnatural and unhealthy and mucus-snot-reaction producing for most adults) again, fat can be obtained from olives/avocados/seeds/nuts. The animal aspect (filled with antibiotics, steroids, hormones) is not essential or even desired, so Patrix shouldn't have described what we need as being animals or dairy. The vital FAT aspect is the key to what Patrix was/is trying to convey (and the reduction of starch and the reduction of sugars).

With all the talk about PROCESSED vegetable oils being bad, I think Patrix forgot to make clear, to himself and to readers, that NON-processed vegetable oils (such as extra-virgin cold-pressed olive oil), and olives themselves, and avocados and seeds and nuts, are all healthy sources of this vital fat we need.

And I'm staring to think that perhaps the vegetarian & vegan & fruitarian stances can be clarified as well, because the eat lots of fruit stance obviously can not be endorsed by those who know sweet stuff makes things rotten and is thus unhealthy. But it turns out vegetarian's & vegan's & fruitarian's main point is actually much more agreeable: minimize or cut altogether grains, eat (and drink) high-pH = high-alkaline = low-acid foods. That's the main point. The alkaline is the key, not the sweetness. The alkaline.)

A summary from Kham is coming soon, but already I am starting to think the real advantage to the vegetarian and vegan and fruitarian diets is the high-pH = high-alkaline = low-acid aspect, and we should concentrate on that aspect, instead of trying to convince ourselves that health comes from sweetness.

Let's face it, health comes from high-pH = high-alkaline = low-acid, not sweetness. Sweetness is an addictive trap which the plants use to get us to eat their reproductive organs to spread their seeds. We have become addicted to the sweetness of fruit (fruit which has been bred sweeter and sweeter to levels of sweetness which probably never existed in fruit 100s of years ago.)

And with our ever-increasing tolerance levels we are currently requiring more and more daily sweetness for satisfaction. But putting aside for a moment that sweetness-dopamine psychological-connection we have created, we all WANT sweetness but perhaps what we really NEED is: just the high-pH = high-alkaline = low-acid part of the fruit (plus the vitamin C part of the fruit, plus the vitamin B17 aka Laetrile aka Amygdalin part of the fruit.) Thus perhaps we should try to get the alkaline without all the sweetness.

Perhaps the real way to clean the lymph system is simply: high-pH = high-alkaline = low-acid (for example, drinking 9.9 pH water like the naturally-alkaline springs water which I drink, or the electronically-alkalized water people buy, or even simply adding baking soda to whatever water you like.) And thus it is possible to solve the the acidic build-up throughout the body WITHOUT getting caught in the unneeded sweetness-drug trap.

Thus perhaps we simply need to cut sweet stuff, cut starchy stuff, cut grains, cut processed stuff, cut cooked stuff, and simply eat raw green stuff (like beet greens, spinach, kale, swiss chard, even grass) for magnesium, tart stuff (like citrus, lemon, acerola) for vitamin C, some almonds and apricot seeds and apple seeds for vitamin B17 aka Laetrile aka Amygdalin, carrots for anti-oxidants, cauliflower for anti-estrogen, and cover it all with healthy delicious raw olives/avocados/seeds/nuts for the vital vegan fat? Can we begin the habit of enjoying mainly just "boring" non-sweet food like that? Could healthy food really be as simple as this? :)
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Unread postby patrix on Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:17 am

Dear Observer,

Actually I am convinced that animal based foods are an essential nutrient. A high fat plant based diet is most likely less worse than a low fat however.

But this is unfortunately a very "touchy" subject. And not only at CF. Promoting meat is generally perceived as bad and insensitive. It's like arguing no one died in 9/11 at a truther forum. Wonder why?...
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Unread postby Kham on Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:54 am

Patrix,

How is eating meat generally perceived as bad, other than as a strategy of tension seen by the mainstream military media in which case nearly all stances which promote a pro side also then must show a con side? Seems that the paleo diet high in meat consumption is generally promoted by the mainstream military media as well as the military medical establishment. What is never promoted nor hardly discouraged lest it get too much attention is a frutarian diet.
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Unread postby pov603 on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:35 am

Hi patrix,
Whilst I am "uneducated" in full with the pros/cons of both sides of the "diet" [I use that in a generic way] I do know Vegans, Vegetarians and [shall we say] "other eaters".
Generally the Vegans I know are of an age below 30 and seem to be in remarkably good shape, but who, in general, isn't under 30?
Most of the Vegetarians I know [my sister being one over the last 20+ years, now in her late 50s] are also generally in good shape.
I think that primarily most people who make a "conscious" choice are generally in better touch with their well-being and hence are mostly in overall good/better demeanour than some of the others who have not made that choice.
That said, "other eaters" who tend to work out, exercise and, for all intents and purposes, have also made a "conscious" choice are also in overall good/better demeanour than people who are not "conscious" or are reluctant to make such choices, possibly out of laziness, habit etc [as is the category I am in...unfortunately...].
I am not a "Meat-denier" or a "Vegetable-denier" therefore I would suggest that people such as yourself who is more learned in such matters [and others who have voiced strong opinions about this issue] propose a list of viable alternatives which [may] provide(s) the body with similar substances.
I know that there are plenty of "30 day diet" books that have possibilities on this subject, but I think it would be good to hear what people from either side of the fence have to offer in this regard, otherwise we can sometimes seem to go around in circles...

To lighten the mood a little:

Donald took his Washington cabinet out to the local steakhouse as a treat.
The waiter approached Donald and asked "What would you like Mr President?".
Donald replied "New York Strip Sirloin, medium-rare".
The waiter took the order and then asked "What about the vegetables Mr President?"
Donald looked at his cabinet around the table and said "They will have steak too"...
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby sharpstuff on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:28 am

Dear, dear, dear. It seems this 'nutritional aspect' of 'Engineering Disease' is off to a bad start.

It has already been sent to the derailing room where it languishes in too many moderator comments and warnings. This is very sad. Moderators have better things to do.

Some of my personal feelings have been shared with other members regarding all this 'nutritional' stuff, in that it devolves into all sorts of labels for people who injest different types of food (and drink, I suppose).

We really need to lay down some agreeable topics and ground rules as to what we really want to discuss and not be bogged-down by all the clap-trap of 'scientific' labels such as chemical compounds and such-like.

I thank 'Observer' who kindly wrote:

(I want to give respect to the thread starter, and hope he can forgive us for trying to figure out the "recipe ratio" details of natural diet.)

However, I have absolutely no interest in what other people consume for their 'daily bread'. There is no magic elixir for anything at all. (Note: Please define 'natural diet', for whom and for what?).

Here we might have a sub-thread on the 'Geographical emergence of particular ill-health in local populations at particular times' which might be expanded into those of a more planet-wide ill-health.

Conversely, we might have a sub-thread upon my own epithet, viz. 'Ask a man not why he is ill but why he is healthy.'

We must remember that all food is produced for us (unless we gather it ourselves and have more control over it) and we are therefore in the hands of the producers. It is our problem to find the best fodder available. As I said in a poem to my very first daughter, many years ago: 'Trust no-one, not even me.'

May we please get our acts together?

Be well.
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Unread postby Observer on Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:55 am

I wrote a long post here which was overly negative. I decided to delete it in the spirit of positivity. B)
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby SacredCowSlayer on Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:56 pm

Observer wrote in his edit here, in part, “non-animal eaters are righteously trying to avoid acid, while non-fruit eaters are righteously trying to avoid sweets, and that an agreeable middle path of healthy high alkaline exists for everyone.”

The history and turbulence of this topic notwithstanding, it appears that the cyber-ecosystem around here has begun to develop some balance.

sharpstuff » October 18th, 2018, 4:28 am wrote:Dear, dear, dear. It seems this 'nutritional aspect' of 'Engineering Disease' is off to a bad start.

It has already been sent to the derailing room where it languishes in too many moderator comments and warnings. This is very sad. Moderators have better things to do.

Some of my personal feelings have been shared with other members regarding all this 'nutritional' stuff, in that it devolves into all sorts of labels for people who injest different types of food (and drink, I suppose).

We really need to lay down some agreeable topics and ground rules as to what we really want to discuss and not be bogged-down by all the clap-trap of 'scientific' labels such as chemical compounds and such-like.

I thank 'Observer' who kindly wrote:

(I want to give respect to the thread starter, and hope he can forgive us for trying to figure out the "recipe ratio" details of natural diet.)

However, I have absolutely no interest in what other people consume for their 'daily bread'. There is no magic elixir for anything at all. (Note: Please define 'natural diet', for whom and for what?).

. . .

We must remember that all food is produced for us (unless we gather it ourselves and have more control over it) and we are therefore in the hands of the producers. It is our problem to find the best fodder available. As I said in a poem to my very first daughter, many years ago: 'Trust no-one, not even me.'

May we please get our acts together?

Be well.
Sharpstuff


[Please note that portions of the above have been placed in bold by yours truly for emphasis.]

Dear Sharpstuff,

It is my sincere hope that this post will be viewed in light of the good humor and sensibility in which it is intended. It appears that you and I are generally in agreement on these points. I will note however that this is by far not the worst of moderating responsibilities.

From that perspective, I’m happy to maintain a close watch of the forum (as life allows) such that the good work done by our members does not get lost, buried, or obscured by distractions, bickering, or the derailing of the topics.

Now, back to the topic at hand. In my view, there are simply too many variables in play for any single “formula” for health to be espoused, let alone maintained, as a universal truth.

Such variables might be (but are not limited to), age, pre-existing trauma(s), gender, chromosomal “disorders” such as Trisomy 21 (AKA Down Syndrome), geographic location, feasibly available resources, and other practical considerations.

Moreover, it would be a grave mistake to conflate a healthy diet with the healthy person. I know a number of people who have healthy nutritional diets as it relates to food. And some of them are the most toxic people I know, at least from a relational standpoint. I would sooner drink a 12-pack of sugar and corn syrup (along with other mystery chemicals) filled sodas a day than consume the personal “relationships” that such people have to “offer.”

My point is, to ignore or skip over the above variables and circumstances, along with a proper understanding for the overall health of the human existence, would relegate this ongoing discussion into a strange “Nutrition in the Vacuum” sort of topic. :P In my experience, such tunnel vision, especially combined with a drastic and sudden dietary change, can throw other important aspects of a person’s life into disarray.

That’s certainly not to say that people shouldn’t make healthy dietary changes. It’s merely a recognition that the human body doesn’t handle rapid change well for the most part. So, my suggestion for our members and readers is to make deliberate, careful, and incremental improvements to their diets, should they be recognized, understood, and desired.

For instance, it would be unwise to place a vital relationship at risk by insisting on a sudden dietary change for the whole family. Few people can afford to suffer such a “healthy” dietary change. Consider the impact on a person’s health when he or she is relationally stiff-armed by a spouse or a child. I suppose this observation would be consistent with my above (hopefully) comical reference to “Nutrition in the Vacuum.”

Let’s see how this topic continues to develop, and perhaps some changes may be implemented in one form or another. If “ground rules” (apart from the presently existing forum-wide ones in place) are needed, then I would consider that preferable to locking the topic. But, as I have previously mentioned, the improvement here is noteworthy, commendable, and a welcome change that gives us something to build on.

My Warmest Regards,

SCS
scs

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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby Observer on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:31 am

Observer wrote:
patrix wrote:The Cancer Treatment Scam
...
sugar is the source of fuel for the fungi infection.
...

Nice. :)

Thank you Patrix, for your beautiful summary. :)


Patrix, you wrote a great summary, with a MAIN POINT which most of us natural-raw-food-lovers can agree with:

"Sugar causes fungi overgrowth, our bodies' attempt to fight fungi overgrowth is labelled 'cancer', so: cut sugar."

While thanking you, I felt it was important to thank the thread starter and ALL the (many detailed) contributions:

Observer wrote:(And thanks SharpStuff for your good original thread start: reducing emotional conflicts increases the body's ability to self-heal.)
...
(And thanks for every post on this thread: sharpstuff, Flabbergasted, Seneca, sharpstuff, pov603, Seneca, ICfreely, kickstones, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, Ataraxia, sharpstuff, kickstones, ICfreely, arc300, sharpstuff, pov603, ICfreely, sharpstuff, Seneca, sharpstuff, pov603, sharpstuff, pov603, sharpstuff, CluedIn, CluedIn, kickstones, Seneca, sharpstuff, Seneca, kickstones, kickstones, simonshack, kickstones, brianv, kickstones, sharpstuff, Apache, kickstones, kickstones, Fake Eater, pov603, sharpstuff, CluedIn, kickstones, Apache, fubarfuthark, kickstones, sharpstuff, sharpstuff, Apache, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, CluedIn, sharpstuff, CluedIn, hoi.polloi, CluedIn, sharpstuff, ICfreely, ICfreely, sharpstuff, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, Equivoque, ICfreely, arc300, starfish prime, ICfreely, ICfreely, Equivoque, starfish prime, sharpstuff, Intothevoid, ICfreely, fbenario, ICfreely, Seneca, CluedIn, aa5, ICfreely, SacredCowSlayer, aa5, ICfreely, HonestlyNow, ICfreely, aa5, ICfreely, aa5, HonestlyNow, aa5, HonestlyNow, ICfreely, aa5, ICfreely, ICfreely, ShaneG, ICfreely, pov603, aa5, ICfreely, HonestlyNow, aa5, simonshack, HonestlyNow, Farcevalue, sharpstuff, aa5, ICfreely, ICfreely, aa5, MrSinclair, hoi.polloi, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, PianoRacer, aa5, pov603, hoi.polloi, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, pov603, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, ICfreely, brianv, hoi.polloi, ICfreely, CluedIn, patrix, CluedIn, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, HonestlyNow, patrix, ICfreely, patrix, hoi.polloi, aa5, patrix, ICfreely, SacredCowSlayer, ICfreely, McKoga, fbenario, sharpstuff, dblitz, sharpstuff, dblitz, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, HonestlyNow, dblitz, hoi.polloi, PianoRacer, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, Flabbergasted, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, HonestlyNow, kickstones, aa5, patrix, aa5, simonshack, pov603, simonshack, agraposo, fbenario, aa5, agraposo, aa5, Seneca, aa5, patrix, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, agraposo, HonestlyNow, agraposo, HonestlyNow, patrix, agraposo, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, patrix, HonestlyNow, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, patrix, HonestlyNow, agraposo, agraposo, patrix, agraposo, patrix, aa5, agraposo, agraposo, aa5, Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter, HonestlyNow, Peter, agraposo, agraposo, Peter, agraposo, Peter, Peter, agraposo, agraposo, Peter, Peter, Peter, sharpstuff, Peter, sharpstuff, Peter, aa5, agraposo, aa5, agraposo, Peter, Peter, agraposo, aa5, aa5, agraposo, Peter, Peter, Seneca, Peter, aa5, Peter, agraposo, Seneca, Peter, sharpstuff, aa5, aa5, aa5, agraposo, Peter, agraposo, Peter, Peter, agraposo, aa5, aa5, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, simonshack, agraposo, simonshack, kickstones, agraposo, agraposo, pov603, patrix, agraposo, The_White_Lodge, patrix, The_White_Lodge, patrix, The_White_Lodge, patrix, The_White_Lodge, Peter, Kham, Peter, Peter, Peter, Flabbergasted, Peter, Flabbergasted, HonestlyNow, Peter, Kham, patrix, Kham, patrix, HonestlyNow, dblitz, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, HonestlyNow, patrix, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, patrix, Kham, Peter, Peter, Kham, Peter, Kham, Kham, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, agraposo, Kham, Peter, Peter, Kham, Kham, patrix, HonestlyNow, agraposo, patrix, pov603, sharpstuff, patrix, Peter, agraposo, Peter, patrix, HonestlyNow, simonshack, sharpstuff, Peter, Peter, Peter, simonshack, PianoRacer, nonhocapito, patrix, HonestlyNow, hoi.polloi, patrix, MrSinclair, nonhocapito, hoi.polloi, aa5, patrix, aa5, patrix, HonestlyNow, SacredCowSlayer, HonestlyNow, SacredCowSlayer, patrix, aa5, pov603, patrix, SacredCowSlayer, simonshack, SacredCowSlayer, Observer, pov603, patrix, Observer, sharpstuff, patrix, Observer, patrix, Observer, patrix, Observer, aa5, Kham, Observer, patrix, SacredCowSlayer, Kham, Observer, pov603, Kham, patrix, Observer)


And thus I duly read through every single post, in order, an action which others pointed out you probably didn't.

While reading all the lovely posts before your first post, I noticed you were the first to claim eating animals is vital.
CluedIn pointed out it seemed like you were jumping in without having read and considered the previous 140 posts.
HonestlyNow logically countered your 1st "eating animals is vital" claim, with his reply that humans are not carnivores.
You then made the "eating animals is vital" claim in 49 more posts, seemingly ignoring the thread's 365 non-patrix posts.
And yes, I also observed before-and-after that you were/are pushing this "eating animals is vital" claim at reddit too.

Since you claim I/HonestlyNow/Kham (and other raw-food-lovers) are being fooled by a hoax, please present evidence.
Perhaps you feel you've posted sufficient evidence "eating animals is vital"? Please do re-post your top evidence proofs.
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby patrix on Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:12 am

Dear Observer,

As you may know it's really not possible to prove things scientifically, only disprove. Make a claim/hypothesis and see if it can be disproved. In the case with animal foods, I see lots of claims they are not healthy, but it lacks evidence. So the hypothesis that avoiding animal foods to for health reasons I find disproved and I've linked to many videos and articles where these claims are picked apart. For example that meat causes cancer as some research claim.
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby HonestlyNow on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:09 pm

patrix » October 23rd, 2018, 7:12 am wrote:In the case with animal foods, I see lots of claims they are not healthy, but it lacks evidence.

And again, as I have in the past, point you to the website that provides plenty of evidence by way of results for thousands of those who chose to take their health into their own hands. If that doesn't do it for you, that's fine, though, your insistence on coming back and again about animal eating being so wonderful, without taking into consideration those points that are publicly available, leaves me aghast regarding your thinking skills.
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Re: Engineering disease

Unread postby patrix on Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:20 pm

A very interesting video on the problems with high carbohydrate consumption. And for some reason a few wealthy individuals know exactly how to avoid disease, and they do it by going totally against common advice...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeCRscqnBhY
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