THE "CHATBOX"

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
kalliste
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by kalliste »

patrix wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:15 pm
kalliste wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:31 am AI is dramatically over-hyped
I have an MSc in Computer Science and I approve of this message. Quantum computing is bullshit too btw. :)
I tend to find that the more I think know about a complex system the more I realize that I don't really understand what's going on and it simply raises more questions. So often I walked out of a biology lecture with my head spinning trying to imagine how a human body hung together and actually managed to work. It's beyond mind boggling when you get into the details. As for how human consciousness is a thing...

Quantum Computing is laughable on its face though. It's hard to imagine how people keep a straight face talking about it.
patrix
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by patrix »

kalliste wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:33 am I tend to find that the more I think know about a complex system the more I realize that I don't really understand what's going on and it simply raises more questions. So often I walked out of a biology lecture with my head spinning trying to imagine how a human body hung together and actually managed to work. It's beyond mind boggling when you get into the details. As for how human consciousness is a thing...
Indeed. It's both unsettling and refreshing when we become honest with ourselves about how little we actually know and how much of our reasoning that is based on assumptions that actually aren't well founded.

For example, I just talked with a friend about vitamins and mentioned that I saw a video with a guy that did an interesting analogy regarding vitamin D: A fire keeps you warm and dry but we don't think that scraping up the ashes from the fire in a glass of water and drink it keeps us warm and dry. Interestingly though, this can be argued is the reasoning behind vitamin D. Since we know sunlight give health benefits it's argued that ingesting one of the chemicals that can be observed to be elevated in sunbathers would give the same benefits.

This made my friend a bit unsettled since he supplements with vitamin D and he started talking about a study that concluded that the telomeres in our DNA benefits from vitamin D. I chose to not bring up the problems with DNA research that in my view are just as grave as those in virology. :)

Edit: And investigating this further it seems that vitamin D in high concentration is used as a rodent poison.
https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/article ... rat-poison
Same thing as with fluoride then that actually was patented as a insecticide in the 19th century, but is now argued to be beneficial for dental health in low concentrations. I don't know about that anymore. :)
kalliste
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by kalliste »

patrix wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:01 am This made my friend a bit unsettled since he supplements with vitamin D and he started talking about a study that concluded that the telomeres in our DNA benefits from vitamin D. I chose to not bring up the problems with DNA research that in my view are just as grave as those in virology. :)

Edit: And investigating this further it seems that vitamin D in high concentration is used as a rodent poison.
https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/article ... rat-poison
Same thing as with fluoride then that actually was patented as a insecticide in the 19th century, but is now argued to be beneficial for dental health in low concentrations. I don't know about that anymore. :)
It's a tricky one, somebody needs to show some plausible biological mechanism ... causation not correlation.

You should look into Linus Pauling who won a Nobel Prize but by the time he got into vitamins his political star had fallen. It's a weird story in a world of crazy stories. It's also a look at the "everything is dose related" issue. The good thing about vitamins is the toxicity is low, especially water soluble vitamins like Vitamin C, so they're probably mostly harmless anyway.

The only things I found that looked like flouride might be interesting was painting calcium flouride onto tooth enamel might help facilitate the natural process of the deposition of minerals into the enamel. You can get this done at a dentist. The adding of sodium flouride to random things you drink or even toothpaste doesn't have any logical connection to this except "flouride" is involved. I did read somewhere that sodium flouride would otherwise be a waste product of industry hard to dispose of, so that would provide a useful incentive.
patrix
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by patrix »

Well, fool me once at it goes. The bottom line for me regarding medicine that I've now looked into for about 15 years and discussed with doctors since I come from a family with lots of MDs, is that the basic theories around cholesterol/heart disease, cancer and contagion simply doesn't hold water, which in turn means that the treatments doesn't either. And the fundamental principle of medicine hasn't actually changed for centuries - By using poisons, we cure or prevent disease. Well that's not very reasonable. Especially if the fundamental view of what disease actually is, is also wrong. For example it's a fact that if we receive antibiotics, we will be relieved of a sore throat, but it's not self evident that this is something beneficial. What if the sore throat was a symptom of a detox that our body deemed necessary to perform and that the poison in shape of antibiotics merely caused the body to postpone this necessary detox in order to deal with this poison? There is support for this in that throat "infections" treated with antibiotics tend to be reoccurring.

In short I don't find reason to believe that anything that is toxic in high concentrations like fluoride or vitamin D is beneficial in lower dosages, and there's also the added risk of toxic buildup.
kalliste
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by kalliste »

patrix wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:16 pm In short I don't find reason to believe that anything that is toxic in high concentrations like fluoride or vitamin D is beneficial in lower dosages, and there's also the added risk of toxic buildup.
I consider that doctors and medical treatment by "professionals" are an absolute last resort. Hospital is where people go to die.

There is a thing called hormesis, look it up. The human body is way more capable than people realise. Here's a weird story vaguely related since we're now on the subject of hormesis thanks to me. At one time I was very in to kick boxing. Whenever I went through those aircraft security scanners they would trip and the guy would search my lower legs carefully. I was a bit mystified until I caught a look at a scanner screen one time. It looked like I had metal rods right where my shins were. Kicking pads and clashing shins when sparring had thickened the bones of my shins abnormally and they showed up black instead of gray on the scan. The amusing thing was the guys kneeling down to mess with my shins didn't realise they were in fact making it trivially easy if I wanted to obliterate their face with a shin kick. Even to this day just short of boiling of rage every time I have to put up with bullshit airport security theatre. Now I'm in my sixties I've mellowed physically but not mentally I fear.
sekito
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:25 am

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by sekito »

patrix wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:15 pm
kalliste wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:31 am AI is dramatically over-hyped
I have an MSc in Computer Science and I approve of this message. Quantum computing is bullshit too btw. :)
Mikhail Dyakonov and Gil Kalai agrees on the infeasibility of quantum computing
https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-case-agai ... -computing
https://www.quantamagazine.org/gil-kala ... -20180207/

AI (or nowadays, usually taken to mean ML) is quite another matter; but I agree that generalized AI is not practical currently

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patrix wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:16 pm Well, fool me once at it goes. The bottom line for me regarding medicine that I've now looked into for about 15 years and discussed with doctors since I come from a family with lots of MDs, is that the basic theories around cholesterol/heart disease, cancer and contagion simply doesn't hold water, which in turn means that the treatments doesn't either. And the fundamental principle of medicine hasn't actually changed for centuries - By using poisons, we cure or prevent disease. Well that's not very reasonable. Especially if the fundamental view of what disease actually is, is also wrong. For example it's a fact that if we receive antibiotics, we will be relieved of a sore throat, but it's not self evident that this is something beneficial. What if the sore throat was a symptom of a detox that our body deemed necessary to perform and that the poison in shape of antibiotics merely caused the body to postpone this necessary detox in order to deal with this poison? There is support for this in that throat "infections" treated with antibiotics tend to be reoccurring.

In short I don't find reason to believe that anything that is toxic in high concentrations like fluoride or vitamin D is beneficial in lower dosages, and there's also the added risk of toxic buildup.
Check out "What really makes you ill?" by Lester & Parker on contagion and medicine, I think you will find your ideas given support
(also, "The Clot Thickens" by Malcolm Kendrick on heart disease; and "Tripping over the Truth" by Travis Christofferson on cancer)

Well, on Vitamin D, I think a distinction must be made between natural vitamin D (which is a hormone) vs. "Vitamin D" supplement which is something else.

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On another note, I've found some resource I would like to share, but I don't want to make a post about them, so I reckon I will just leave it here in the chatbox
- YouTube channel IndustryHoax - exposes the faked deaths of various rappers and black celebrities
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2pgr1 ... F4h_SqgMOA

- Blog on the Isreal-Gaza war fakery, last updated in 2016 (might need Wayback Machine to access)
http://www.thomaswictor.com/

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BTW, I wonder, is there a consensus/opinion here on Boston's dynamics?
Personally, I think their videos filmed indoors are partially faked (with wires), and the videos filmed outdoors are mostly fake (CGI)
patrix
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by patrix »

    sekito wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:06 pm
    Check out "What really makes you ill?" by Lester & Parker on contagion and medicine, I think you will find your ideas given support

    BTW, I wonder, is there a consensus/opinion here on Boston's dynamics?
    Personally, I think their videos filmed indoors are partially faked (with wires), and the videos filmed outdoors are mostly fake (CGI)
    I'm well aware of Dawn and Dave. We've had them as guests on the podcast I'm part of
    https://www.spreaker.com/user/10042798/ ... r-and-dawn

    And they're on the mark regarding viruses and the problem with allopathic medicine, but I don't agree with them when it comes to veganism. I think the reason plant based foods has been encouraged throughout the 20th century is because Dr Salisbury demonstrated in the 19th century that overconsumption of them can cause chronic disease https://archive.org/details/b20402582

    Yes I agree that Boston dynamics is mostly a Spacex/NASA of robotics.
    sekito
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    Re: THE "CHATBOX"

    Unread post by sekito »

    Nord Stream leak, real or fake?

    Image

    The line of perfectly horizontal clouds looks rather odd to me, though I cannot find any proof of fakery in the noise or luminance analyses…
    kalliste
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    Re: THE "CHATBOX"

    Unread post by kalliste »

    sekito wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:29 pm Nord Stream leak, real or fake?

    The line of perfectly horizontal clouds looks rather odd to me, though I cannot find any proof of fakery in the noise or luminance analyses…
    We don't know what's happening. Could be deliberate venting that nobody has ever paid attention to before. We don't know who did it if anyone did anything and so on. We're stuck with a meta analysis and the knowledge that it's all fake and whatever is really happening we're being lied to.

    The reasons I think the whole situation are a fake WWE style circus show heavily involve the fact that if Putin was really serious the first thing he would have done was cut off Europe's energy supply. He could have walked into Ukraine practically unopposed if he'd done this. The whole clown show makes no sense whatsoever.
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