HOLODOMOR - the true "Jewish holocaust"

[panertos]

I might have something to add here. We need to look I think first at the propaganda / political aspects / the research / the actors.

In short: I think the Holodomor is atrocity propaganda. It was used first by Jewish Ukrainian immigrants who came to the US in the 30s, then by the US in 1984 to get ready for the color revolution in the USSR in 1991, then it was used in uprising to the Orange revolution in Ukraine in 2004 and then it really was severely pushed up to the Maidan revolution in 2014.

Google Ngram provides a perfect view in that: (it only entered our collective mind in the last 10 years)
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... r_end=2019

On the US involvement in the research into the Holodomor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Comm ... ine_Famine

The Holodomor is now a foundational myth on which the Ukraine is built. Comparable to how Israel uses the Holocaust. Not for nothing Ukraine is quite a Jewish state at this moment in time. The parallels between these 2 events are great.

Ukraine is of a crucial importance geopolitically as the bridge between the east and the west. It was in WW2, it is today. The Ukraine had the largest Jewish population of all the Soviet states in the 1970 census 1 million Jews. And while the Bolshevik revolution was a Jewish revolution it didn't turn out well for most Jews under Stalin.

In the reign of Stalin after 1924 we see a shift in his policies to minorities. Stalin's policies of rapid industrialization and forced collectivization disrupted traditional Jewish city occupations in commerce. Also Jews had to go work in farms, factories and mines. This prompted many Jews to emigrate in the late 1920s-early 1930s, over 200,000 Ukrainian Jews received permission to emigrate from the Soviet Union, mostly to Palestine under the British Mandate and to US and other Western countries. What should have become a perfect homeland for the Jews changed. In 1939, Stalin reversed Communist policy and began a cooperation with Germany that included the removal of high profile Jews from the Kremlin.

Read this with caution:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_St ... tisemitism
But having a wikipedia says enough that the Jews and Stalin were no friends in the end.

Not for nothing in modern history Hitler is the #1 evil and Stalin the #2.

"The Black Deeds of the Kremlin: A White Book" (1953) - This is one of the earliest publications to "document" the famine, it was written by an Ukrainian nationalist émigrés (how the official media say it ) and was highly critical of the Soviet regime.

Some of the writers:
Semen Pidhainy, a Ukrainian historian and political activist. Pidhainy is Jewish. He was also a member of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, a Ukrainian nationalist resistance movement that fought against the Soviet Union.
I.I. Sandul, a Ukrainian economist and statistician. Sandul was Jewish. He was born in a Jewish family in Ukraine and was active in the Jewish community. He was also a member of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, a Jewish organization that was formed to fight against Nazism.
Victor Kravchenko, a Soviet defector who worked in the Soviet grain procurement apparatus. Kravchenko is a common Jewish surname in Eastern Europe.
Arthur Koestler, a Hungarian-British writer who witnessed the famine in Ukraine. Koestler was Jewish, though later identified more as a communist and critic of totalitarianism.

So what's happening here? Accounts written down by Jewish Ukrainian political activists.

And then we see almost nothing and in the 1980s the US take this up and revive the "Holodomor"

The book: The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture 1931-1933 by Robert Conquest in 1983 (also Jewish) is like the serie "Holocaust" from 1978 for the Holocaust. (

The books written mostly consist of "eye witness" accounts.

“My mother used to tell me about the time she saw a woman eating her own child.” This is a quote from the book "Death and Survival in Ukraine: The Holodomor and Afterwards" by Robert S. Sullivant. Sullivant's grandmother told him this story, which she had heard from a neighbor. The woman had been driven to madness by hunger, and she killed her child and ate it.

“I saw people digging up the grass and eating it.” This is a quote from the book "The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine" by Robert Conquest. Conquest's source for this story was a Ukrainian woman who had survived the Holodomor. The woman told him that people were so hungry that they would dig up the grass and eat it, even though it would make them sick.

“I saw people being arrested for stealing food.” The Soviet government imposed harsh penalties on anyone caught stealing food. People were arrested and sent to labor camps, where they often died.

Children's Suffering: Witness accounts often highlight the suffering of children during the famine. Parents had to watch their children waste away from hunger, and many families lost their young ones to starvation. The sight of children begging for food or searching for scraps is a recurring theme in these accounts.

Sounds familiar right? Holocaust survivors, Hiroshima survivors, horror stories.

The guys in charge today in the Ukraine, are of the same Ukrainian nationalist Jewish group. Many of the Ukrainian Jewish immigrants in the US got high positions. And it's not surprising we see history playing out today in the Ukraine.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3PU7OD5AXo

I could add a lot more, but let's leave it at this for now. Research for yourself, it's very very fascinating.

I have seen many people debunk the mass-extermination camp holocaust, and accept the Holodomor as it fit in the frame of us fighting against communism.

I don't want to say there was no hunger and starvation (notice the similar excuses we need to make as around the holocaust), I'm no denialist. But it's not about that. Nobody remembers the German victims in WW2. Or all the people that starved in the Ukraine in the winter of 44/45. This is politics.

I'm convinced in my research this is largely a propaganda event used to gain power.

[Discumbobulate]

Would like to point out the Bolshevik revolution was a purely Russian peoples revolution. Nothing to do with those chosenites.

All Marxist Jewish members of the Communist party in the Duma at that time were Mensheviks , including Trotsky , and all in the Bund. Enemies of the Bolsheviks ,which is why the western colonial powers sent their militaries to support the Mensheviks during the Russian civil war.

The Russian Revolution: A New History Hardcover – Illustrated, May 30, 2017
by Sean McMeekin (Author)

A decent read about the revolution if your interested.

A look into the Jewish Bund organisation in the Duma
http://www.yivoarchives.org/index.php?p ... d&id=33762

Another example of the western propaganda I'd say. Taint the supressed peoples revolution with that elitist crap and quell the uneasy masses. TPTB fear another Bolshy uprising. Ukraine certainly needs one.

[panertos]

Would like to point out the Bolshevik revolution was a purely Russian peoples revolution. Nothing to do with those chosenites.

All Marxist Jewish members of the Communist party in the Duma at that time were Mensheviks , including Trotsky , and all in the Bund. Enemies of the Bolsheviks ,which is why the western colonial powers sent their militaries to support the Mensheviks during the Russian civil war.

The Russian Revolution: A New History Hardcover – Illustrated, May 30, 2017
by Sean McMeekin (Author)

A decent read about the revolution if your interested.

A look into the Jewish Bund organisation in the Duma
http://www.yivoarchives.org/index.php?p ... d&id=33762

Another example of the western propaganda I'd say. Taint the supressed peoples revolution with that elitist crap and quell the uneasy masses. TPTB fear another Bolshy uprising. Ukraine certainly needs one.

Thanks! Very interesting, I never thought of it like that, but looking into it, it's really compelling.

Martov and Plekhanov from the Mensheviks were both Jewish indeed. And I remember reading Lenin on the 'Jewish question' and the push for real equality (both Jews and non-Jews laboring on the land hand in hand) which is, of course, not the desire of the liberal city people, which was more the Menshevik position.

It also makes sense how the liberal Jews pushed for Trotsky vs. Stalin. And it makes sense how the Soviets and US cooperated under Trotsky. Liberal communism is pretty much what we have in Europe now, with the state controlling+50% of GDP.

And yes, this seems to be Western propaganda indeed, counter-propaganda of the confusing kind.

I'll look into the book, thanks. I want to learn a bit more on the Bolsheviks now. I think the general idea of my theory on the Holodomor keeps up. Maybe Lenin was a bit lesser executor on the communist (Bolshevik) ideas than Stalin. Which makes Stalin evil person #2 in the world.

What I find interesting is how those in power present the "protestor". In Europe we now all these fake climate protests funded by millions of Euros from government-funded non-governmental climate organisations with people "glueing" themselves to the road. Jan 6 was a showevent to teach everyone to never try anything against those in power or you'll spend your live in jail. Maybe you're right, the thing they fear most is a Bolshy uprising.

The Bolsewiks need some more of my attention.

[Discumbobulate]

Would like to point out the Bolshevik revolution was a purely Russian peoples revolution. Nothing to do with those chosenites.

All Marxist Jewish members of the Communist party in the Duma at that time were Mensheviks , including Trotsky , and all in the Bund. Enemies of the Bolsheviks ,which is why the western colonial powers sent their militaries to support the Mensheviks during the Russian civil war.

The Russian Revolution: A New History Hardcover – Illustrated, May 30, 2017
by Sean McMeekin (Author)

A decent read about the revolution if your interested.

A look into the Jewish Bund organisation in the Duma
http://www.yivoarchives.org/index.php?p ... d&id=33762

Another example of the western propaganda I'd say. Taint the supressed peoples revolution with that elitist crap and quell the uneasy masses. TPTB fear another Bolshy uprising. Ukraine certainly needs one.

Thanks! Very interesting, I never thought of it like that, but looking into it, it's really compelling.

Martov and Plekhanov from the Mensheviks were both Jewish indeed. And I remember reading Lenin on the 'Jewish question' and the push for real equality (both Jews and non-Jews laboring on the land hand in hand) which is, of course, not the desire of the liberal city people, which was more the Menshevik position.

It also makes sense how the liberal Jews pushed for Trotsky vs. Stalin. And it makes sense how the Soviets and US cooperated under Trotsky. Liberal communism is pretty much what we have in Europe now, with the state controlling+50% of GDP.

And yes, this seems to be Western propaganda indeed, counter-propaganda of the confusing kind.

I'll look into the book, thanks. I want to learn a bit more on the Bolsheviks now. I think the general idea of my theory on the Holodomor keeps up. Maybe Lenin was a bit lesser executor on the communist (Bolshevik) ideas than Stalin. Which makes Stalin evil person #2 in the world.

What I find interesting is how those in power present the "protestor". In Europe we now all these fake climate protests funded by millions of Euros from government-funded non-governmental climate organisations with people "glueing" themselves to the road. Jan 6 was a showevent to teach everyone to never try anything against those in power or you'll spend your live in jail. Maybe you're right, the thing they fear most is a Bolshy uprising.

The Bolsewiks need some more of my attention.

You idea about the Holodomor seems spot on. I'd lump Holodomor ,Holocost and "Jewish Bolshevism" together as 1960 era propaganda .

Lenin was a brilliant orator like Adolf , but was not in Russia at the time of the Bolshevik revolution . He seems to have been an asset of foreign intelligence agencies , German or British ,can't remember which but was hastily sent back to Russia with a huge amount of money probably to subvert the leadership of the soviet system , install the required controllers after the unexpected Bolshevik uprising.

I think Stalin tried to remove the influence of the old Mencheviks from the Soviet Union after the death of Lenin.

Hence all that propaganda. Those parasites were still around and stole the wealth of the Soviet people when the wall came down.

That's my thoughts . Interesting times when you look at them.

[panertos]

You idea about the Holodomor seems spot on. I'd lump Holodomor ,Holocost and "Jewish Bolshevism" together as 1960 era propaganda .

Lenin was a brilliant orator like Adolf , but was not in Russia at the time of the Bolshevik revolution . He seems to have been an asset of foreign intelligence agencies , German or British ,can't remember which but was hastily sent back to Russia with a huge amount of money probably to subvert the leadership of the soviet system , install the required controllers after the unexpected Bolshevik uprising.

Agree. It's a very strange situation. Vladimir Lenin lived in exile in Switzerland from 1905 to 1917. Switzerland allowed Lenin to continue his revolutionary work, write political literature, and maintain contact with fellow revolutionaries in Russia and other countries. While in Switzerland, Lenin had access to libraries, printing presses, and financial resources that were crucial for his political activities. He continued to publish revolutionary newspapers and pamphlets, including the famous "Pravda."

In April 1917, Germany arranged for Lenin to travel by sealed train from Switzerland to Petrograd. This move was likely aimed at destabilizing Russia, the Eastern Front.

I think Stalin tried to remove the influence of the old Mencheviks from the Soviet Union after the death of Lenin.

Agree.

Hence all that propaganda. Those parasites were still around and stole the wealth of the Soviet people when the wall came down.

Yep, I'm really fascinated now by this period. Our entire Western history appears to be a fabrication. I keep getting surprised, thinking, 'And this too?' Yes this too, it's all so similar when you start seeing it. And so much more logical. History starts to make sense.

I remember as a kid history felt so weird, that there was a duke Franz Ferdinand who got killed from nothing and then in a mysterious turn of events WW1 happened which killed millions. That's ridiculous.

[Discumbobulate]

I recall reading that Russian agriculture was subject to a varying degree of famine over a cycle of around seven years . Short growing seasons subject to drought.
This coincided with the famine in the Ukraine district . Perhaps this was propagandised by the West years later under the "communism bad" banner.

Will have to see if I can find some old books on all this . I remember reading old books about the revolutions , written between 30s and 60s. Can't recall anything about a Holodomor in there .

[panertos]

I recall reading that Russian agriculture was subject to a varying degree of famine over a cycle of around seven years . Short growing seasons subject to drought.
This coincided with the famine in the Ukraine district . Perhaps this was propagandised by the West years later under the "communism bad" banner.

Will have to see if I can find some old books on all this . I remember reading old books about the revolutions , written between 30s and 60s. Can't recall anything about a Holodomor in there .

I took a look at many 1930s newspapers in the west (Europe and US) and it is a complex but predictable play of forces; Basically the same forces as today.

We see Ukranian Lobby groups pushing for this narrative; "United Ukranian Organisations of the United States". We see Rabbi's, we see the League of Nations. We read in other articles the Russians describe it as scorn, that it was temporarily hard in the collectivization but that the harvests are good now (1933).

The Ukraniane elite and especially the emigrees didn't like the Russian rulers as they do today. The Ukraine were more internationalist, had a strong Jewish lobby, had a strong line to the internationalist press and lobby organizations.

I scrolled through a few years of articles in Western press, it's constant repetition, Russia is exporting grain while it's own population is starving and they are trying to kill the churches as people need to believe in communism. It's a clear propaganda message seen in the repetition. As if the whole USSR was there to starve the population and stop the churches. Very similar to the propaganda on the Germans; just there to exterminate Jews.

It's a certain tone, a certain simplification, that all Western propaganda has, it's repetitive, simple, easy to grasp, a clear good and evil.

I find it also interesting that the newspapers were full on "wheat news", as it was the scarce commodity as oil is today. Manipulation of prices. Huge trades. Shortages. Price volatility. It's almost impossible to see it like that today as wheat is so abundant and cheap. In the 30s the wheat prices were daily news, and discussed on a global scale.

It's interesting that the collectivization brought abundance of wheat in the USSR; Much higher productivity per m2. I'm always wondering in these things, who benefits? The wheat trade was extremely lucrative.

In 1887 in Odessa, Jews owned 35 percent of factories, which accounted for 57 percent of all factory output; in 1900, half of the city’s guild merchants were Jews; and in 1910, 90 percent of all grain exports were handled by Jewish firms (compared to 70 percent in the 1880s). Most Odessa banks were run by Jews, as was much of Russia’s timber export industry. On the eve of World War I, Jewish entrepreneurs owned about one-third of all Ukrainian sugar mills (which accounted for 52 percent of all refined sugar), and constituted 42.7 percent of the corporate board members and 36.5 percent of board chairmen.

From the Jewish century by Uri Slezkine
https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Century-Y ... 0691127603

To show you some people didn't like the collectivization of the Ukraine.

It's the same pattern; billionaires, international financial elite. Ukraine was this place. And the Bolshevik impact was big.

The largest private grain trader in Ukraine between 1925 and 1935 was Louis Dreyfus. It was a agricultural commodities trading and processing company that was founded in 1851 (also Jewish). The company had a significant presence in Ukraine during the interwar period, and it is estimated that it handled over half of the country's grain exports at the time.

Louis Dreyfus was able to maintain its dominant position in the Ukrainian grain market due to a number of factors. First, the company had a well-established network of offices and warehouses in Ukraine, which gave it a significant logistical advantage over its competitors. Second, Louis Dreyfus had close ties to the government.

So we see large trading companies, also under communism their influence was huge like Dreyfus, corruption, a Western media blaming Stalin and communism, an angry Jewish elite that lost their position in society trying to undo the power shift finding partners in the US and the media, we see the the international order.

We never hear this side of the story, it's always "evil Stalin" and "communism" killing his own people. We see a struggle for power here, in which probably many people had to suffer. If I need to guess, the amount of suffering is much smaller than presented in Western media, probably 10x less, and the blame game is also fully off, who heard on the international grain traders before? Which leaves us: What is true? What is propaganda? How about the grain traders? How about corruption? How about the former elite mostly Jewish elite controlling 90% of the grain trade?

A historic mess.

(I spent a few hours on this now and it always makes me a little sick, I deeply deeply dislike the lies, this vision of the world that is being presented is so far off reality, it bears a resemblance, and is true for 5% but it misses the mark, it leaves us dumb, and I feel abused when I really dive into it, remembering school classes a teacher telling me how it is in the USSR, talks with friends, tv programs on this topic, how easily lies are being spread, and these lies are not harmless, every lie hurts us, we need to look at these manipulative traders, not just at the magical Hitler and Stalin, all quite easily found, Google, Yandex, old newspapers, books, in which we can get closer to what really happened)

[Discumbobulate]

Nice information you've presented there. Were you able to find any mentions of the Holodomor in those news clippings?

As I recall the great famine took place in the early 1920's during and towards the end of the civil war .Millions died in this. Never come across that 1930's famine . I know that after Lenin died Stalin pushed through with the collectivism of agriculture , taking the land back from the greedy rich ,amongst great resistance from those elites. Particularly in the Ukraine where some people sided with the Mensheviks and the West in that civil war .

I think this holodomor thing may be a new thing and connected to the current situation in that region . That seems like propaganda to me.

Am sitting in the local library with McMeekin's 2015 book on the Russian Revolution and the Holodomor is mentioned once - I will quote

"the forced collectivisation of agriculture of the early 1930s, which Ukrainians now refer to as the Holodomor" - Page 350 if are able to find a copy

The only mention - nothing about deliberate starvation or famine .

Seems to me this Holodomor thing is a rewriting of history .

https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-geno ... /holodomor

Have a look at this link ,note where it originates from and look at the "Suggestion for Educators".

Brainwashing bastards - excuse my language. Fancy tainting the Glorious Bolshevik Revolution with those parasites.

This is a very interesting discussion . Thanks for being able to look through the established paradigm we are presented with.

[panertos]

Nice information you've presented there. Were you able to find any mentions of the Holodomor in those news clippings?

Thanks, not the word Holodomor, that's invented after WW2. The US started pushing it in the 80s with the Ukraine Famine Commission.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... moothing=3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Comm ... ine_Famine

In the newspapers in the 1930s we already see Ukranian lobby groups, mostly Jewish Ukranians that moved to the US pushing the 1930s famine. The set-up is very similar to holocaustian narrative.

As I recall the great famine took place in the early 1920's during and towards the end of the civil war Millions died in this. Never come across that 1930's famine . I know that after Lenin died Stalin pushed through with the collectivism of agriculture , taking the land back from the greedy rich ,amongst great resistance from those elites. Particularly in the Ukraine where some people sided with the Mensheviks and the West in that civil war .

True I think. Anyhow Stalin built a new party-bourgeoise. A power shift. A new greedy rich which didn't pay off for all. The Ukrainian nationalist sentiment is also clear early 20th century. The same we see today.

I think this holodomor thing may be a new thing and connected to the current situation in that region . That seems like propaganda to me.

I think so too.

Am sitting in the local library with McMeekin's 2015 book on the Russian Revolution and the Holodomor is mentioned once - I will quote

"the forced collectivisation of agriculture of the early 1930s, which Ukrainians now refer to as the Holodomor" - Page 350 if are able to find a copy

The only mention - nothing about deliberate starvation or famine .

Seems to me this Holodomor thing is a rewriting of history .

https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-geno ... /holodomor

Have a look at this link ,note where it originates from and look at the "Suggestion for Educators".

Very interesting. Reminds me of Holocaust "education"
https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/USHMM-Teac ... Lesson.pdf

The Ukranian "education"
https://education.holodomor.ca/teaching-materials/
http://www.sharethestory.ca/

Very similar, horror stories have a strong impact on the kids mind.

This is a very interesting discussion . Thanks for being able to look through the established paradigm we are presented with.

Thanks, it's very interesting how propaganda is shaped, where it originates (Ukraine jewish lobby groups in the 30s), when it's pushed (The US for USSR revolutionary goals in the 80s)

I didn't write anything on Chernobyl yet on this forum, but taking this historic perspective, and the role of Ukraine to keep Europe in check and to influence Russia, it becomes clear this is a political event.
I have been in Chernobyl a few years ago and learned that 1 reactor on 300 meter distance from the original blowout kept working for another 10 years, manned, people worked there every day, interesting right?
Noteworthy the same period, first this "famine" commission, then Chernobyl.

That it's an industrial wasteland is a complete hoax, beautiful nature, i saw deer, trees and people are living there. There is no danger, no problem, there wasn't and there isn't.

[Discumbobulate]

All good stuff and very interesting. Lenin ,before he died , was on the verge of introducing new policies allowing the limited return of capitalism ( basically a menchevik policy, let the parasites back in). NEP directive or some such label - I can try and find this information again if you need links . Perhaps this was his long term directive as an agent of foreign powers .Bring the oilygarks back so to speak.

Upon his death Menchevik Trotsky was supposed favourite to lead the communist party but Stalin was able to take power . His five year plans to industrialise and modernise the Soviet Union were then introduced , including the collectivisation of agriculture. Uncle Joe tried to remove the influence of those Mensheviks who were traitors to the Bolshevik revolution, which is the way I see it .

To me this is why Stalin is much vilified by the Western plutocracies. Much in the same way as Hitler .

Interesting info on the fake radioactivity - didn't realise Chernobyl was in Ukraine . I know radioactive decay is farcical.

This thread has provided much insight which has cleared away much disinformation for me .Lenin was always an enigma to me. Still is I suppose . Thanks again.