Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

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Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Sisterlover on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:17 pm

I believe in the idea of maintaining a scientific detachment from the issues at hand, and would like to re-iterate, hopefully with more gusto, the ideas I was putting forth -strictly in the interest of revealing the fakery we hold so abhorrent. It was in that sense that I used the word 'o' word. It's hard to avoid the cliche' attachment to the word, but the definition, as you may know, is “to shut off from view or exposure : cover, eclipse “ which could certainly be applied to what's going on behind these operations.

Let me try to summarize my idea so that perhaps another, more fitting, thread may one day take it's place...

It seems to me that our current notions of what constitutes the reasons for faking news stories has been contained in a framework with just a few parameters. We know the perps make shit-loads of money from these psy-ops. We know they benefit from ulterior motives (gun control, clamping down on rights, etc.)
I guess these reasons should be enough, but the sheer amount of energy and skullduggery associated with these 'ops' seem to indicate a singular lack of creativity that is counter-intuitive to the labour involved. Having said that, I know that wealth doesn't equal class, so these may just be games for the perps.

It's very easy to slide into the realm of fantasy, especially here at the precipice of fakery revelation, so I am treading lightly when I say: The accepted reasons for fakery seem flimsy, or unsatisfying, when the effects are so great. Is there a way for us to discuss possibly 'deeper' reasons for this mass deception, without sounding flaky? It doesn't seem so.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby edgewaters on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:27 pm

I think it's just the oldest and most proven psy-op technique in the book, with thousands of years of experience and countless phenomenal successes behind it. Why would they ever avoid its use? It would be like showing up to a construction site loaded with high tech gadgetry and nifty tools but no hammer, or like being an engineer who was unaware of the wheel.

To give it currency is to play right into it. I don't see motive here, only means.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Sisterlover on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:49 pm

edgewaters wrote:I think it's just the oldest and most proven psy-op technique in the book, with thousands of years of experience and countless phenomenal successes behind it. Why would they ever avoid its use? It would be like showing up to a construction site loaded with high tech gadgetry and nifty tools but no hammer, or like being an engineer who was unaware of the wheel.

To give it currency is to play right into it. I don't see motive here, only means.


Just what psy-op do you mean, edge? And, are you suggesting there is no motivation behind these events, or that they are only being executed because they can be executed? That is hardly a cogent response.

The way I see it, by not examining the underlying motivations behind the events (it wasn't about gun control thousands of years ago...) you are giving currency to just a part of the issue, and devaluing an equally important factor: why.

Conversely, if you spend your time only examining bunk pictures and bogus videos, are you not giving currency to the most base and obvious elements of the scam? Since when did "why" not matter? <_<
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Gracist on Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:08 am

Sisterlover wrote:
edgewaters wrote:I think it's just the oldest and most proven psy-op technique in the book, with thousands of years of experience and countless phenomenal successes behind it. Why would they ever avoid its use? It would be like showing up to a construction site loaded with high tech gadgetry and nifty tools but no hammer, or like being an engineer who was unaware of the wheel.

To give it currency is to play right into it. I don't see motive here, only means.


Just what psy-op do you mean, edge? And, are you suggesting there is no motivation behind these events, or that they are only being executed because they can be executed? That is hardly a cogent response.

The way I see it, by not examining the underlying motivations behind the events (it wasn't about gun control thousands of years ago...) you are giving currency to just a part of the issue, and devaluing an equally important factor: why.

Conversely, if you spend your time only examining bunk pictures and bogus videos, are you not giving currency to the most base and obvious elements of the scam? Since when did "why" not matter? <_<


I agree. Showing the obvious fakery doesn't get to the root. I feel like the "living room" is an appropriate place to muse and think aloud about the "why's." I don't think that it will take away from exposing the fakery, and if anyone is worried about looking crazy I think it's too late for that. Anyone who questions these things is already considered fringe.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:23 am

What the heck does "O" stand for now - obtuse? Because you're being incredibly weird. Why don't you just say what the heck you mean? You've read too many conspiracy sites and you're addicted to weird, alternative explanations when the obvious is slapping you in the face over and over.

It seems to me that our current notions of what constitutes the reasons for faking news stories has been contained in a framework with just a few parameters. We know the perps make shit-loads of money from these psy-ops. We know they benefit from ulterior motives (gun control, clamping down on rights, etc.)
I guess these reasons should be enough, but the sheer amount of energy and skullduggery associated with these 'ops' seem to indicate a singular lack of creativity that is counter-intuitive to the labour involved. Having said that, I know that wealth doesn't equal class, so these may just be games for the perps.


Of course we can speculate til we're blue, but you're still hiding your hypothesis instead of speaking plainly, and it's becoming annoying. What do you hope to accomplish or find? They're using a magic book, hidden from generations? They're in cahoots with alien beings? What is the point?

If you don't start clarifying just exactly what you mean instead of trying to derail the important points of the discussion, I am afraid I will have to ask you to take your discussion to the alternative realms that seem to be calling you.

I agree. Showing the obvious fakery doesn't get to the root.


Of course it doesn't. But how do you hope to ever get to the root by yourself - without waking people up first? Do you want us to all concentrate psychic powers? Circlejerk? Worship your deity? Why are you so insistent on your fucking tiniest musings?

If you're bored, take a break from the forum. Don't force everyone to enter your imagination.

In other words, post proof and evidence as always.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby edgewaters on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:25 am

Sisterlover wrote:Just what psy-op do you mean, edge?


Any that it can be applied to. Its a means or tool, not an end, in my belief.


And, are you suggesting there is no motivation behind these events, or that they are only being executed because they can be executed? That is hardly a cogent response.


Well just because the hocus-pocus isn't the end doesn't mean there isn't one! That's kind of silly. The end is power and control.

The way I see it, by not examining the underlying motivations behind the events (it wasn't about gun control thousands of years ago...) you are giving currency to just a part of the issue, and devaluing an equally important factor: why.


Well see gun control would probably not be an end, it would be a means. People often confuse processes with objectives this way; its very important to distinguish between the two. They are not the same thing at all.

Thousands of years ago there were no guns, so obviously this would have been irrelevant. But ends don't change much over time, and some tools - ones that don't relate much to technology, such as the hocus-pocus, smoke and mirrors stuff - had utility then, and still has it now. It operates directly on the suggestible human mind, which, as a system, hasn't changed (unlike technological implements such as weapons)
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:33 am

Well see gun control would probably not be an end, it would be a means. People often confuse processes with objectives this way; its very important to distinguish between the two. They are not the same thing at all.


Exactly.

Some like Gracist or Sisterlover and others on this forum seem to get a little caught up in the unknown aftermath of our stumbling into these weird fake things, and they sow seeds of confusion about the order of events.

Here are the "facts" (from my perspective):

1. We noticed the video is fake
2. We have noticed some people seem to have some motivations for faking the video

That's it. There is nothing more we can know without knowing the fakers and hoaxers themselves. So bring on the whistleblowers, interviews and research, if you please. Enough of this personal emotional stuff.

And no, I am not so "fringe" as to want to alienate readers by bringing every manner of odd stories onto the forum that have so little to do with the media PsyOps that it borders on deliberate distraction and obfuscation disguised as "oh poor me, I am censored on CluesForum!" whining.

Speaking of "why" questions. I wonder why you still haven't defined what you mean by "occult" or is this topic meant to be a "Q and A with Sisterlover's spiritual being" thread?

“to shut off from view or exposure : cover, eclipse “ which could certainly be applied to what's going on behind these operations.


Wow, good point. It's a conspiracy made by people of peculiar belief systems. You got us there. What fascinating and new information! :rolleyes:
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Gracist on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:16 am

hoi.polloi wrote:
Well see gun control would probably not be an end, it would be a means. People often confuse processes with objectives this way; its very important to distinguish between the two. They are not the same thing at all.


Exactly.

Some like Gracist or Sisterlover and others on this forum seem to get a little caught up in the unknown aftermath of our stumbling into these weird fake things, and they sow seeds of confusion about the order of events.

Here are the "facts" (from my perspective):

1. We noticed the video is fake
2. We have noticed some people seem to have some motivations for faking the video

That's it. There is nothing more we can know without knowing the fakers and hoaxers themselves. So bring on the whistleblowers, interviews and research, if you please. Enough of this personal emotional stuff.

And no, I am not so "fringe" as to want to alienate readers by bringing every manner of odd stories onto the forum that have so little to do with the media PsyOps that it borders on deliberate distraction and obfuscation disguised as "oh poor me, I am censored on CluesForum!" whining.

Speaking of "why" questions. I wonder why you still haven't defined what you mean by "occult" or is this topic meant to be a "Q and A with Sisterlover's spiritual being" thread?

“to shut off from view or exposure : cover, eclipse “ which could certainly be applied to what's going on behind these operations.


Wow, good point. It's a conspiracy made by people of peculiar belief systems. You got us there. What fascinating and new information! :rolleyes:


Is there somewhere better that those of us who are so inclined can discuss such topics? The living room says it is a place to muse and think aloud, we aren't hijacking a thread about a specific topic such as 9/11 vicsims. I can't speak for everyone but I'm not attempting to sow seeds of confusion or be emotional. I haven't seen an example of myself or others trying to force a deity on anyone. There are threads here about Michael Jackson controlling fake media events (not that it is a bad topic) so I don't see why that is 'okay' but the androgynous agenda or occult/mystery religions is unacceptable.

I do agree though that there should be some more evidence and clarity though about exactly what is being discussed here and won't post more about my personal thoughts without backing information and sources.

I do have to ask though, considering the nature of media fakery and actors, what would make a "whistle blower" more credible than any fake victim's parent or media pundit?
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby anonjedi2 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:21 am

FWIW, the Michael Jackson thread is 100% relevant to the main subject of this forum. The media spectacle around his hoax death, the memorial service, funeral, This Is It, and the comical Conrad Murray trial (etc.) is actually a perfect chunk of curriculum for anyone who may stumble across the idea of media fakery and wants to learn more. The occult stuff is fine with me but really doesn't fit with the research of this forum. There's plenty of that crap all over the web.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Sisterlover on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:25 am

Bah, whatever... All I'm asking for is a discussion about why this shit happens. I haven't invoked David Icke, Jesus F*&#ing Christ or any other secular spook, real or imagined.
I'm hardly even spiritual, aside from the time I spend on the throne of Excremeditation.
This same kind of vitriol and nastiness was also once directed at people who suspected the earth was round, not flat. Guess what? Science is subject to change, too, despite what most of the practicioners will tell you. It's cool and all, but it ain't the whole ball of wax.
No skin off my nuts.
Last edited by Sisterlover on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Gracist on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:28 am

anonjedi2 wrote:FWIW, the Michael Jackson thread is 100% relevant to the main subject of this forum. The media spectacle around his hoax death, the memorial service, funeral, This Is It, and the comical Conrad Murray trial (etc.) is actually a perfect chunk of curriculum for anyone who may stumble across the idea of media fakery and wants to learn more. The occult stuff is fine with me but really doesn't fit with the research of this forum. There's plenty of that crap all over the web.


I didn't mean to seem like the MJ thread is irrelevant, because I don't think that. All I mean is that I think if presented properly, focused on a definable topic and supported with evidence there should be no reason that the 'occult' aspects aren't relevant as well to the research on this forum. I'm willing to drop it in the interest of keeping the forum focused though.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:02 am

Bah, whatever... All I'm asking for is a discussion about why this shit happens. I haven't invoked David Icke, Jesus F*&#ing Christ or any other secular spook, real or imagined.
I'm hardly even spiritual, aside from the time I spend on the throne of Excremeditation.
This same kind of vitriol and nastiness was also once directed at people who suspected the was round, not flat. Guess what? Science is subject to change, too, despite what most of the practicioners will tell you. It's cool and all, but it ain't the whole ball of wax.
No skin off my nuts.


Okay - now I'm enjoying this discussion. Alright, it's not the whole thing. There may be otherworldly things going on, but there is a huge difference between implying:

1. There are otherworldly things going on that nobody knows the real answers to (the official position of most establishments that operate in the public good)
~and~
2. There are otherworldly things going on that some people understand better than others

The former might not be ideal. And it is definitely a lie and deception to say that there is nothing weird going on in this world. (Hell, being alive and aware itself is a rather weird one to begin with). But where are you planning to take it when you get to the latter - that occultists are somehow more special or aware than we? Then you have to start making weird rules and walls like which occultists are more powerful, what is a human being, which color in Magic the Gathering is better, etc.

To me, when you imply the latter, you imply a kind of justification and moralization for the scams that they themselves use to justify their unusual and sometimes cruel actions. Why can't we recognize that we are all equally knowledgeable, powerful and purposeful? Why do the perps have to be "more" connected to the big Why mystery of life just because they've pulled the wool over our eyes at times?

I'm not talking about personalities. I act like a vitriolic asshole here to be sure. I hate that role. What I think you are talking about is the equivocating of high crime with Religious justifications. I find it very uncomfortable, since if you've been paying attention for the last entire existence of humanity, Religion has been the traditional excuse for some pretty terrible, bloody, physical evils affecting life on Earth.

Nevermind the "O" word. That means almost the same thing as the "R" word. It's just different sizes of cult, right?

You say you want to know the cosmic reason this shit happens? Don't we all! But how - really, when you give it a moment's thought - do you expect to find that by asking a bunch of people on an Internet forum? What guru, messiah or shaman is going to log on here and explain the universe to us?

I almost don't understand where the problem is, here. We discuss occult behaviors, beliefs and rituals already, to an extent. Why do we need a separate thread? It's sprinkled throughout the entire forum!

What I keep hearing you implying is that there is some real magic behind the rituals that you want to be a part of and if that's the case, please - by all means - join a Masonic lodge, start a Ouija board session or whatever, infiltrate their ranks and come back and let us know what demons and spirits are giving the perps a helping hand, but I don't understand what you think is so "forbidden" here that we are being unreasonable about. I don't get it.

As it has been pointed out, the Michael Jackson thread exists. The numerology of the perps' attitudes has been pointed out. But why you want to crawl into the minds of the psychopaths I just don't comprehend.

Aren't you the least bit curious about the science behind mind control, so you can shield yourself from it a bit? I thought we were providing a pretty good service here by pointing out how conventional, easily accessible and easily controllable symbols are ... for everybody. And not just for some guy in a funny hat hiding in his treasure room.

Personally, I think this forum is already extremely, heavily spiritual to an almost obnoxious degree, in its exploration of the ways in which our minds are molded in ways we don't fully understand but which reveal, little by little, more about this strange experience of being alive here on this planet. If that's not spiritual for you, I guess I don't know what to say.

If you're just seeking power, may the Flying Spaghetti Monster save you.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Sisterlover on Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:43 am

hoi.polloi wrote:
Bah, whatever... All I'm asking for is a discussion about why this shit happens. I haven't invoked David Icke, Jesus F*&#ing Christ or any other secular spook, real or imagined.
I'm hardly even spiritual, aside from the time I spend on the throne of Excremeditation.
This same kind of vitriol and nastiness was also once directed at people who suspected the was round, not flat. Guess what? Science is subject to change, too, despite what most of the practicioners will tell you. It's cool and all, but it ain't the whole ball of wax.
No skin off my nuts.


Okay - now I'm enjoying this discussion. Alright, it's not the whole thing. There may be otherworldly things going on, but there is a huge difference between implying:

1. There are otherworldly things going on that nobody knows the real answers to (the official position of most establishments that operate in the public good)
~and~
2. There are otherworldly things going on that some people understand better than others

The former might not be ideal. And it is definitely a lie and deception to say that there is nothing weird going on in this world. (Hell, being alive and aware itself is a rather weird one to begin with). But where are you planning to take it when you get to the latter - that occultists are somehow more special or aware than we?

To me, when you imply the latter, you imply a kind of justification and moralization for the scams that they themselves use to justify their unusual and sometimes cruel actions.

I'm not talking about personalities. I act like a vitriolic asshole here to be sure. I hate that role. What I think you are talking about is the equivocating of high crime with Religious justifications. I find it very uncomfortable, since if you've been paying attention for the last entire existence of humanity, Religion has been the traditional excuse for some pretty terrible, bloody, physical evils affecting life on Earth.

Nevermind the "O" word. That means almost the same thing as the "R" word. It's just different sizes of cult, right?

You say you want to know the cosmic reason this shit happens? Don't we all! But how - really, when you give it a moment's thought - do you expect to find that by asking a bunch of people on an Internet forum? What guru, messiah or shaman is going to log on here and explain the universe to us?

I almost don't understand where the problem is, here. We discuss occult behaviors, beliefs and rituals already, to an extent. Why do we need a separate thread? It's sprinkled throughout the entire forum!

What I keep hearing you implying is that there is some real magic behind the rituals that you want to be a part of and if that's the case, please - by all means - join a Masonic lodge, start a Ouija board session or whatever, infiltrate their ranks and come back and let us know what demons and spirits are giving the perps a helping hand, but I don't understand what you think is so "forbidden" here that we are being unreasonable about. I don't get it.

As it has been pointed out, the Michael Jackson thread exists. The numerology of the perps' attitudes has been pointed out. But why you want to crawl into the minds of the psychopaths I just don't comprehend.

Aren't you the least bit curious about the science behind mind control, so you can shield yourself from it a bit? I thought we were providing a pretty good service here by pointing out how conventional, easily accessible and easily controllable symbols are ... for everybody. And not just for some guy in a funny hat hiding in his treasure room.

Personally, I think this forum is already extremely, heavily spiritual to an almost obnoxious degree, in its exploration of the ways in which our minds are molded in ways we don't fully understand but which reveal, little by little, more about this strange experience of being alive here on this planet. If that's not spiritual for you, I guess I don't know what to say.

If you're just seeking power, may the Flying Spaghetti Monster save you.


I mean this with the most frivolity, and respect, when I quote the famous bumper sticker... "You have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit."
Friends, I fear I have been greatly misunderstood. I've never asked for a spiritual explanation for any of this. In fact, I believe, if there is a nasty cabal running the show, they are far from anything we might consider spiritual. I challenge anyone to find in any of my posts an inclination to delve into spirituality, except, dear Hoi, in your imagination. I've even used the above-mentioned Dawkins example of a spaghetti monster in posts on this very forum to demonstrate the implausible and ineffectual ends which that discussion can take.

The last thing I would want is to foster is an environment of new-age namby pamby self-help aphorisms when discussing something of such great import. I'm still not sure how, aside from my use of the word 'magic', that this talk has been applied to any of my posts. Oh, and that I (currently) believe that some dark forces are at play in the events. I'm trying to figure out who and why. I already dig the science.
Having said that, I can understand where, after years of serious digging, defending and living with the information that you've turned up, it must seem almost insulting that someone might be asking questions that you find paltry or of no use. I'm afraid I can't help you there.

In response to your question, am I the least bit interested in (EDIT: the science of) mind control? Well, let's see... I've been shut down for discussing the legitimacy of the subject, so I suppose I know a thing or two about it. Do I fear it? Hardly. I'd be more worried about a horde of pasty, internet zombies who believe in pictures found on 'wellaware' without asking why, than I would be a manchurian candidate.

PS: I never said anything about wanting to know the 'cosmic' reasons for this b.s. One more time, for clarity, I'm just asking 'why'.
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby lux on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:19 am

So, the question is, besides acquiring wealth, what is the reason for all these psy-ops?
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Re: Skirting around the "O" word, to figure out why...

Unread postby Sisterlover on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:26 am

I'd like to quote my own first post from this thread... just so no one seriously believes that I'm David Koresh or some shit...

"It seems to me that our current notions of what constitutes the reasons for faking news stories has been contained in a framework with just a few parameters. We know the perps make shit-loads of money from these psy-ops. We know they benefit from ulterior motives (gun control, clamping down on rights, etc.)
I guess these reasons should be enough, but the sheer amount of energy and skullduggery associated with these 'ops' seem to indicate a singular lack of creativity that is counter-intuitive to the labour involved. Having said that, I know that wealth doesn't equal class, so these may just be games for the perps.

It's very easy to slide into the realm of fantasy, especially here at the precipice of fakery revelation, so I am treading lightly when I say: The accepted reasons for fakery seem flimsy, or unsatisfying, when the effects are so great. Is there a way for us to discuss possibly 'deeper' reasons for this mass deception, without sounding flaky? It doesn't seem so."
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