Engineering Nutrition

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.

Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby HonestlyNow on Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:27 pm

patrix » December 6th, 2018, 5:22 am wrote:The emotional Vegan propaganda is a Psyop.

Patrix.

Perhaps, many of those who have chosen to not partake of the killing, and torturing, of animals and ingesting the remains, are those who have gone within themselves and found that their own conscience does not allow such actions.

Perhaps, given that, this issue has absolutely nothing to do with what you are calling the Nutwork, and everything to do with each one's own consciousness.

May you find Peace.
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby sykkelmannen on Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:12 am

HonestlyNow » December 6th, 2018, 6:27 pm wrote:[quote="
Perhaps, many of those who have chosen to not partake of the killing, and torturing, of animals and ingesting the remains, are those who have gone within themselves and found that their own conscience does not allow such actions.

Well said.
Good news for those hellbent on a healthy diet: with the amount of food waste in the 30-50% range, you too can eat whatever you want at zero cost and not have blood on your hands at the same time. What CF readers might find of added value: no food tax money to the powermongers either!
Go freegan. Starve 'em out.
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby patrix on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:57 am

sykkelmannen » December 7th, 2018, 2:12 am wrote:
HonestlyNow » December 6th, 2018, 6:27 pm wrote:[quote="
Perhaps, many of those who have chosen to not partake of the killing, and torturing, of animals and ingesting the remains, are those who have gone within themselves and found that their own conscience does not allow such actions.

Well said.
Good news for those hellbent on a healthy diet: with the amount of food waste in the 30-50% range, you too can eat whatever you want at zero cost and not have blood on your hands at the same time. What CF readers might find of added value: no food tax money to the powermongers either!
Go freegan. Starve 'em out.


It's interesting that it always boils down to this. Vegans see themselves as morally superior because they don't eat animal products. I don't share that view. Food production without animals is an ecological disaster. How can this be unclear? And how considerate is it to all living things to be a part of destroying the ecosystem?

As I said before I am ok with people being vegans. People should be free to destroy their health in any way they like. What I don't like is that this poor choice of eating is promoted as something healthy and good for the environment (and animals). Because it isn't.
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby SacredCowSlayer on Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:48 am

HonestlyNow » December 6th, 2018, 11:27 am wrote:
Perhaps, many of those who have chosen to not partake of the killing, and torturing, of animals and ingesting the remains, are those who have gone within themselves and found that their own conscience does not allow such actions.


Well, this is just the kind of hyperbole that tends to throw our own (cyber) ecosystem here at Cluesforum out of balance. Please. . . careful up there on that high horse, okay? ;)

sykkelmannen » December 6th, 2018, 7:12 pm wrote:
Well said.
Good news for those hellbent on a healthy diet: with the amount of food waste in the 30-50% range, you too can eat whatever you want at zero cost and not have blood on your hands at the same time.


No. Not “well said.” Same goes for you here. Please do tell us where this “zero cost” food may be found.

patrix » December 6th, 2018, 8:57 pm wrote:
It's interesting that it always boils down to this. Vegans see themselves as morally superior because they don't eat animal products. I don't share that view. Food production without animals is an ecological disaster. How can this be unclear? And how considerate is it to all living things to be a part of destroying the ecosystem?

. . .

What I don't like is that this poor choice of eating is promoted as something healthy and good for the environment (and animals). Because it isn't.

[Bold inserted by SCS for emphasis]


I too have developed a distaste for the moral superiority claimed in this regard (by some). It matters not to me whether people eat animal meat or not.

Also, I have found the arguments for a balanced ecosystem to be compelling. I think there is enough to go around to sustain each of our members here for the foreseeable future.

Some of us will be healthier than others, and I’m all but certain there are more variables in play than we could possibly reduce to text. :)
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby Kham on Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:02 am

It’s funny. I became a vegan because meats and dairy digestive residues are extremely acidic and take a lot of energy which is needed elsewhere. Removing them from my ingestion improved my health significantly.

Having been off meat and dairy for almost 2 years now, I thought it would be ok to cheat a little with some turkey for Thanksgiving. I unexpectedly felt sad as I was contemplating eating the bird. If you have ever slaughtered an animal, you will find that they are full of anxiety and clearly do not want to be killed. I ignored that fact before but now, since I have had time to reboot my sensitivity, it’s hard to go back with out feeling that I am causing harm. I didn’t expect that.

This has nothing to do with me feeling morally superior, it has all to do with me recognizing the pain and suffering of animals. If you are a true meatavore, then kill and eat your dog. Its distress should not bother you in the slightest.
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby SacredCowSlayer on Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:56 am

Kham » December 6th, 2018, 10:02 pm wrote:It’s funny. I became a vegan because meats and dairy digestive residues are extremely acidic and take a lot of energy which is needed elsewhere. Removing them from my ingestion improved my health significantly.

Having been off meat and dairy for almost 2 years now, I thought it would be ok to cheat a little with some turkey for Thanksgiving. I unexpectedly felt sad as I was contemplating eating the bird. If you have ever slaughtered an animal, you will find that they are full of anxiety and clearly do not want to be killed. I ignored that fact before but now, since I have had time to reboot my sensitivity, it’s hard to go back with out feeling that I am causing harm. I didn’t expect that.

This has nothing to do with me feeling morally superior, it has all to do with me recognizing the pain and suffering of animals. If you are a true meatavore, then kill and eat your dog. Its distress should not bother you in the slightest.


To be clear, I’m not suggesting that all vegans claim this “superiority.” Far from it. I think we all have different reasons for our diets based on numerous factors. And that’s fine.

I’ve experimented with a number of “diets,” and when the dust settles, I find that the old expression “nothing too much” is one that resonates with me physically. So I’m pretty much an “eat and let eat” kind of guy.

And I will readily admit that I grew up hunting (until my mid teenage years), but haven’t had a desire to do so since. In fact, the last time I shot a living thing (a rabbit), I was surprised at how badly I felt.

That was roughly 15 years ago, and it had been probably 10 years since I had shot a living thing prior to that (aside from the occasional rattle snake). So, my own sensitivities had in fact changed during that time.

My guess is that a certain (more defined) tenderness developed in me during that intervening time. And it just so happens to coincide with having been married (to a wise and mature wife for whom I am eternally grateful) for the preceding 5 years or so. Now, if the survival of my family depended on me killing a deer (or other wild animal), there’s no doubt I would do it without hesitation.

I’m not claiming these are easy or simple issues. There is probably too much nuance in this topic for me to write anything that would constitute “taking a side.”

It has occurred to me that perhaps each member here (who has voiced a strong opinion on this) may have a good point, and there are places along the spectrum (between any given extreme) for each person that may be ideal for them. That is probably not a proposition that anyone wants to hear- I realize.
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby HonestlyNow on Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:36 pm

SacredCowSlayer » December 6th, 2018, 10:48 pm wrote:
HonestlyNow » December 6th, 2018, 11:27 am wrote:Perhaps, many of those who have chosen to not partake of the killing, and torturing, of animals and ingesting the remains, are those who have gone within themselves and found that their own conscience does not allow such actions.

Well, this is just the kind of hyperbole that tends to throw our own (cyber) ecosystem here at Cluesforum out of balance. Please. . . careful up there on that high horse, okay?

My post was directed to Patrix's continuing declaration that "[emotional] veganism is a psyop."

I'd like him to explain how he thinks it is a psychological operation, and to what end.
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Re: Engineering Nutrition

Postby HonestlyNow on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:53 pm

patrix » December 6th, 2018, 9:57 pm wrote:Food production without animals is an ecological disaster. How can this be unclear?

Yes, it is unclear to me how "food production without animals is an ecological disaster." Please explain, and please keep it in the context of the billions of animals that are purposely bred to be used by humans. Thank you.
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