Workshop for Admins

Discussions related to both taboo and peculiar areas of research.
SacredCowSlayer
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Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

[Admin Edit (SCS) on March 25, 2020: The term Admin (for purposes here, on this mini-forum) includes Moderator as well.]

Please notice, this “forum” is not in public view. I have created it so we Admins have a place to deal with whatever issues we may need to outside the atmosphere where certain people or entities long to see the Admins engaged in crossfire with one another.

It’s also preferable to hodge-podge group emails. Similar to the vetting of new members process.

Also, in rare circumstances, if a member makes an exceptionally long post, and it warrants (by virtue of the time required, if nothing else) further review, collaboration, or editing, then this is a good place to “drop” it (Temporarily) for such things.

Given my recent attempt at this with Observer’s long post which contained a somewhat tricky issue, and his subsequent (and reasonable) question of (and I’m paraphrasing here) “where did it go?”- I think in such rare instances it would be wise to make a note on the forum in the place of the temporarily moved post. That way it is crystal clear to those “looking in” that we aren’t censoring the post.

Also, I don’t think any of us want to get PMs and e-mails about such things, unless absolutely necessary. Plus it’s the right thing to do of course. Lesson learned on my part. But hey, “problems” like that inspire me to creative solutions (hopefully) such as this.

It’s not perfect. But it is (I think) better than sending the wrong message by placing in the Derailing Room, especially when it’s not actually Derailing anything.

Nevertheless, this is a good place for helpful suggestions and thoughts between the Admins as to how we can more productively and efficiency handle such matters.

Sincerely,
simonshack
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by simonshack »

Good idea, dear SCS.

I just wonder about one thing: why did you feel it necessary to delete Observer's post for a while - as you were editing it?
(or my question is, actually: how is it even possible to delete a post - and then reinsert it in the same spot as it was posted?)
See, I hade read that post yesterday - and then suddenly noticed it had disappeared. Other members may have thought for a while that it had been censored - i.e. outright deleted, which of course isn't what we do here. I think we should avoid that.
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

Thanks Simon. I’m glad you like the idea. I think it will be highly useful.
I just wonder about one thing: why did you feel it necessary to delete Observer's post for a while - as you were editing it?
(or my question is, actually: how is it even possible to delete a post - and then reinsert it in the same spot as it was posted?)

That’s an excellent question. I wrote an extensive answer that was lost because I timed out. Ouch.
So here is my best attempt to quickly reply nonetheless.

Here is what happened.

Observer’s post gave me pause initially because of the (ostensible) image of himself (on a passport) contained within it. And there are potential legal problems (amongst others) associated with that. My highly detailed explanation of that is (for now) lost in a timed-out session. :( I will write about it again when I have time.

I could also readily see that the post needed some paragraph breaks. I started the edit, but realized I wouldn’t have time to do the whole thing in one sitting (even though I can 99.9% of the time), in part because of how long it was. I didn’t think it was appropriate to delete it or to leave it as it was.

So I temporarily moved the post to a thread on this otherwise invisible “forum” within CF. That way I could edit it over a period of time in the evening (while thinking the “image issue” through), and then move it back after further review and editing. That is why the time stamp is just as it was when he posted it.

I never deleted it. But nobody else had a way of knowing that (at the time).

And alas, the evening “got late early,” and it ended up escaping my mind until I saw my email this morning. At that point I promptly placed it back (although my edits were largely incomplete), and sent Observer a PM letting him know.

That “gaff” on my part inspired me to start this topic here, and configure the settings/permissions such that an Admin/Mod may (if appropriate) pick up where another Admin/Mod leaves off (for whatever reason). In such instances (which I imagine would be rare), the Admin/Mod placing it here may make a brief note for the others to let them know it’s a work in progress, or perhaps a question seeking feedback.
See, I hade read that post yesterday - and then suddenly noticed it had disappeared. Other members may have thought for a while that it had been censored - i.e. outright deleted, which of course isn't what we do here. I think we should avoid that.
I agree 100%. And that is why I stated in my initial post in this “topic” that it would be wise to make a notation in those rare instances where a post may need to be relocated here, temporarily, for some unforeseen reason, or maybe for further Admin review and/or discussion when it’s not so clear what to do.

In those moments, it will give the Admin or Mod more options than to move to the Derailing Room or leave something that could be problematic. Yet the due diligence may be done out of public view such that we don’t wind up (potentially, and indeed accidentally) undermining one another.

Hopefully that helps make sense of what happened. I don’t ordinarily write so extensively about any given mistake. But, in this instance I thought it would be helpful to provide some context and background, considering that this Admin workshop was essentially “born” from it. In that sense I could hardly call it a bad thing.

Finally, I will add that I’m presently working to address the email situation. Hopefully we will stop getting all those notifications about the bots signing up.

I’ll keep you posted.

Yours Truly,
simonshack
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by simonshack »

Thanks for your detailed explanation, dear SCS - got it ! :)
Kham
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by Kham »

Checking in. That’s it.
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

I’m going to list some concerns that I have re personal images being posted on CF.

1. In many jurisdictions it is illegal to impersonate another by using their likeness online for a variety of purposes that constitute different torts and/or crimes, depending on how (and for what purpose) the image(s) and depiction(s) are used.

[Note: These laws vary widely, and are in a constant state of flux.]

We really don’t have a way to verify the identity of a given person, and match it with the name and/or image that is associated with the Username from which it is posted.

And naturally we can’t be sure they aren’t posting an image of somebody else for some nefarious purpose.

It is predictable that, should we allow members blanket permission to post personal images of (ostensibly) their likeness (or of others)- that essentially add no articulable value to the post anyway- we are opening ourselves up to potential problems that could otherwise be avoided.

In addition to potential legal scrutiny, I see a more serious danger lurking, especially in light of the very nature of this research.

Imagine a “long con” plan whereby a member peppers the forum with images (purportedly) of himself.

Now, some time down the road, a news story comes down the pipe, and behold, “a Cluesforum.info Member by the Username _________ has been linked to the shooting/ bombing, (or whatever madness) in ___________, USA.”

Unlikely? Maybe

Arguments for why such a thing probably wouldn’t “happen”? Sure. I could make some.

But, what is the danger in highly restricting the use of such images? None

So, I’m going to make a proposal here.

How about we set a policy that puts members on notice that all personal images (depicting the likeness of generally unknown persons) should be:

A. accompanied by supporting context for why it is relevant;
B. reasonably articulated such that it adequately describes how the image advances the research; and
C. expected to be removed by an Admin or Mod, with the understanding that we will err on the side of removing it- so please don’t take it personal.

Note: There may be exceptional circumstances whereby the image has a high degree of relevance (properly described), and I think we should allow for the possibility of that, even if we are generally inclined to discourage the posting of such things.

My thought here is pretty simple. We lose nothing by removing these images. But a risk (with unknown potentials) just sit there otherwise.

The good news here is that this policy will not cause a change in posting behavior of hardly any existing members (save for Observer) at the present time.

But, I’d like to go ahead and get our members and readers (which of course include potential members) used to the idea that we aren’t taking the road here that most forums tend to be going down.

I’m interested in feedback from other Mods and Admins (anyone with permissions to see this).
Kham
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by Kham »

SCS,

You made several good points of which I agree. The dangers are all on allowing images of members and not on disallowing them.

Now what to do with members who post pics of other members, such as O who posted my pic without my permission?
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

Kham » November 24th, 2018, 12:53 am wrote:SCS,

You made several good points of which I agree. The dangers are all on allowing images of members and not on disallowing them.

Now what to do with members who post pics of other members, such as O who posted my pic without my permission?
That is a particular unnerving issue as well.

It is consistent with O’s strange suggestion to me via email (at least twice) that he won’t disclose my “real name.” I say strange because I nevertheless brought up the issue whatsoever.

So, it came across to me as a not so subtle threat that he might (should he feel the need) try to do just that.

Not that he has my real name anyway.

But that’s not the point. I think the point is that, behind the (sometimes) kind words and so forth, there lurks the sense that he is trying to intimidate.

I didn’t know about him posting your image like that. I must say you handled it well.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Of course I immediately removed it. You could have, but I’m glad you pointed it out to me, so I could see for myself.

On that particular point, I’d say Members shall not post images of other members without express permission. Any violation like that should be dealt with on a case by case basis, ranging from a warning to a permanent ban, depending on the malicious nature of it.

That’s something we can review and decide if/when it comes up.

I plan to address this very soon.

I’m going to be working on a draft. Will probably make a Global Announcement for some appropriate period of time.

Then it could be incorporated with other new member guidance material, etc.

Better to cross this bridge now than later.

Thanks for the feedback.

Sincerely,
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

If my “Forum Policy Update” here needs to be modified, that’s fine. It could probably be improved upon (perhaps), but I think it should suffice in the time being.

Obviously, this place is not for members to somehow attempt to bolster their written text with their own imagery. If it were, I’m all but certain we would have brand new people/bots/ops/etc. showing up to try and convince us of things about “themselves.”

I find it far preferable to preempt that kind of thing at the first sign of trouble, which Observer presented us with.

Here is to hoping that my post serves to prevent us from one day finding ourselves grappling with a sea of imagery that suddenly occurs to us as posing a problem.

Obviously, if there is something about my post that is ambiguous or otherwise needs clarification (or qualification), please don’t hesitate to kindly let me know here on this topic.

I’ll be happy to review it and make necessary changes as we go.

Warmest Regards,
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

Real quick- it should almost go without saying, but, with regard to the Wal-Mart project, we will be keeping our fellow Admins and Mods apprised here as we go.

And we won’t be opening it until having some back and forth here first, and probably discussions on the matter beforehand as well.

Obviously it’s an extremely sensitive topic. And that will become more clear to you as we go.

We aren’t anywhere near anticipating it being ready to open.

That said, I’m okay with making some people nervous as hell about what is coming in the not too distant future.
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

In case you Notice the number of “registered users” shrinking, that’s because I’m removing ALL the accounts with ZERO posts from that group. Such an action leaves “them” in the “newly registered users” group.

This may not be necessary. But, it would be nice to have only actual members in the “registered users” group and list.

Just wanted to keep you all informed.

Thanks,
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

UPDATE: I have managed to pare the “registered users” group down to 370, from the previous total of just over 7,200 (I can’t remember the exact number).

In any event, please take note that members who properly belong in the “newly registered users” group, should be ONLY in that group until an Admin changes it.

The default is to keep them in it until 20 posts in- but, they can only post in the forum that they are vetted in.

We’ve only had one new member come in through that process thus far. But it worked great in my opinion.

Hope you all have an awesome week. :)
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Admin and Mod Exchanges re Newly Registered Users

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

Well, our present prospective member, TheWalruss, has posted his reply to my questions in the relevant thread as follows:
TheWalruss » December 1st, 2018, 1:23 am wrote:I'll start with the easy question: I've used "TheWalruss" as my online handle since 1998, chosen on a whim as I was listening to some Beatles and I made a typo on the double-s.

Image analysis is of course an important part of any critical dialectic that includes visual media. That said, I don't claim any real training or experience in image forensics despite my expertise in image processing, machine vision, and AI.

Just like there is no difference in the sound produced by a hi-fi system playing a recording of a piano, and an actual piano (the physical pressure waves of sound are literally indistinguishable), ultimately an image contains a pixel array and there's no reliable way to determine the exact process that led to a particular pixel value - straight from an image sensor chip is rarely the case, even .RAW or .DNG or other "raw" formats are produced after image rectification and some other processes. Then there's photoshop, of course.

As to the images, I see nothing wrong with the video clips. The Voices memorial clearly posted the wrong picture and there is some confusion about his middle initial - perhaps he has multiple middle names.

What I find interesting is tracing the origin of an image (or other data) to determine the source, and seeing if the data is manipulated somewhere along the chain. That often says more about its contents and meaning than data forensics.
I am going to send him just a couple of more questions. But I’ll admit right now that his statement above (in bold-insertedby me) has me concerned that he will simply dismiss any and all imagery analysis with a bunch of gobble-de-gook wordsmithing.

I’m open to feedback here.

If one of us activates him in the “registered user” group, I’d say we need to be prepared to limit or qualify the admission in some way.

Otherwise our members will think we aren’t vetting them. His statements indicate either, 1. Total ignorance of the SeptemberClues research, including the VicSim Report, or 2. Direct (conclusory oriented) opposition to the existing research, with the stated aim of “explaining” rocketry in the vacuum for us all. Hmm. . .

What do my fellow Admins/Mods think?

Okay, I’m editing this post to update with a link to my post back to TheWalruss.
Last edited by SacredCowSlayer on Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added link to my subsequent post in the “Introduce Yourself to the Administrators” thread.
Kham
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by Kham »

So far Walruss has shown he is not interested in discourse, not interested in challenging specific points and not interesting in reading the forum.
SacredCowSlayer
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Re: Workshop for Admins

Unread post by SacredCowSlayer »

Kham » December 2nd, 2018, 5:54 pm wrote:So far Walruss has shown he is not interested in discourse, not interested in challenging specific points and not interesting in reading the forum.
That is correct. You may want to read through the exchanges- if you haven’t already.

I’ve already banned him.

:)
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