Exchange with Raj Babra

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timothymurphy
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Exchange with Raj Babra

Unread post by timothymurphy »

See Hoi's 9-11 phone call at:
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... &p=1812581

also see background to this post - vicsim Benedetta Ciaccia etc. at:
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... &p=1051261


Exchange with a 7/7 vicsim-lover


Inspired by Hoi’s 9/11 phone call I thought people might find my wordy exchange with Raj Babra (ex-lover of 7/7 vicsim Benedetta Ciaccia) and Andy Lee (TV professional) of interest.


Andy Lee a.k.a. Tearecords a.k.a. Strangedays and (probably) a.k.a. Raj Babra uses
charm,
sensual images,
flattery,
love bombing
guilt



The story
Andy Lee hosts a dubious 7/7 memorial film about vicsim "Benedetta Ciaccia" on his youtube site.
The film is made by amateur “Raj Babra” who is the bereaved ex-lover of Benedetta. (Raj has no birth records btw)

I left a flippant comment on the video and “Raj” was soon on my case.
(funnily enough, the Last signed in thing on youtube has always shown that Raj Babra and Andy Lee are always online at approximiately the same time)


Raj 3 Jan 2010

Hello

I would like to thank you for watching Life Without Benedetta and taking time to write your comments on the documentary. My name is Raj and obviously you would know who I am now that you have seen the film.

I did not very much understand your latest comment you left on the film so checked your channel. I see you have uploaded a couple of videos in relation to the bombings and I read the synopsis. I get you are sceptical but I am confused by what your opinions are about the victims, survivors or relatives.

This message is not to change your mind or get into a email battle of right or wrong but maybe to understand what your point you are trying to get across. Maybe you could share it with me by replying? I would very much appreciate it.

What I can tell you about my experience is that it completely affected my life and all that loved Benedetta. She was a very kind and peace loving girl so for us it was shocking that she would get caught up in something so horrific. Since Benedetta passed away I have thought about her everyday. She is on my mind a lot of the time and it is a painful memory. The pain of losing her has become a part of my life and for me now this is the new normal. I can't even remember how it used to feel not to have this loss in my life. Even writing a message to you sharing so openly would have been impossible until about 2 years ago. Producing that film provided a massive healing process that allowed me to let go of many negative emotions.

I myself have doubted certain parts about the official events of the bombings. However, I have moved on from the who, how and what happened to the absolute truth that Benedetta was killed in the incidents with many other people. The exact circumstances are irrelevant. The only truth is that many people lost someone they love that day and it hurts more than I can describe.

This documentary has been screened at various London venues including Channel 4 Cinema and on Italian television 3 times. To date, the only negative response we have ever had is from yourself. I am therefore quite curious to know what it is that makes you feel negatively towards the documentary.

I look forward to your reply

Raj


Tim 3 Jan 2010

Re: Hello
dear Raj,

It was probably foolish of me to write comments on your video, given the risk you would read them.

I don't want to mess with your head. Probably other people have been messing with your head somewhat over the last few years.

I am familiar with research into 9-11 which shows that most, if not all of the victims are fabricated. (see septemberclues.info)
While I don't think this is true for 7-7, the whole event has an air of fabrication about it.

The content of your film may well be true, but it also synchronises so neatly with the general propaganda thrust of 7/7 that I can't take it at face value.

For example the sequence where you show a view from where people keep disappearing is very similar to a sequence in a BBC feature on London schoolchildren a year after 7/7, where the camera also plays the "disappearing" trick - to remind people: "It could be YOU!"

I find that unnecessary unless, of course, Fear is the aim.

Plus there are too many little coincidences placed into the film, which artificially heighten the impact.

Whether or not you personally intend it, your film is propaganda.

Don't worry, I'm not planning to place comments on it anymore.

Best wishes

Tim

Raj 3 Jan 2010

Re: Hello
Hello Tim

Thanks for your reply.

I am happy you did acknowledge the fact you wrote that it was possibly foolish to write those comments. What most people don't get is that communication that we are responsible for is so impacting on people that we talk without thinking. Seeing you brought this up, the impact was that I read your comment yesterday and felt a cold surge inside me of disbelief. I wonder what kind of person could make such a comment after I have shared my innermost personal story with someone I loved dearly and lost suddenly. After a lot of healing, I have managed to move on and I have another girlfriend. She was at home with me and I read your comment to her. It has been hard for her to be with me with my baggage but we have pulled through. She sighed, shook her head and said that there are some horrible people out there. So I emailed the guy who uploaded the film for me on his youtube account and asked for your comment to be removed.

So today I checked first thing if the comment had gone. It was and I was happy to see that. This evening I noticed your new comment. It was very hurtful and to be honest its the first time someone has said anything negative about the film. Considering this film has been shown to around a million people now and you are the sole person to criticise it, it shocked me. I initially was feeling enraged but calmed down and thought to email you and find out what is it thats rattling your cage about this film. I am glad I have done so as I got a response that made me get that its nothing personal.

What I can assure you is that the film has intentionally been moved away from propaganda, religion, race, politics etc. If you watch the film, you will see that the bombers are referred to 4 individuals. You may actually notice that the film is about loss of life and effects of terrorism on innocent people. The focus of the film itself is not about the event of 7/7 but the life story of Benedetta and others who suffered in the common incident that took her life - the London bombings.

The fading people etc - I have never even heard or seen that BBC feature. The editing was done by a lady called Ingun in her home. She had nothing to do with the bombings in any shape or form. This was her artistic style and if its similar to the BBC feature I would call it coincidence. My impression of the way you see things is that you go too deep and make meanings of something that wasn't intended to be that way. However, you appear so on a mission to seek for this evidence, the smallest thing can become that evidence. I guarantee you, there are not hidden messages or meanings in this film. It was put together in a massive rush due to a 3 month deadline and I have a fulltime job. I also have never studied film or made a film before. I never even had a budget or equipment. Do you know how hard it is to be in that position, make a film and then put hidden meanings into it?

I am unsure which coincidences you are referring to in the film. Are you able to elaborate?

Tim I will be very honest with you. I have very much doubted the official events. The cancelled train. The phone call to a diplomat before the bombings saying to not use the public transport. The fact that a simulation was being run of such events happening at these 4 locations at the exact same time on the exact same day that coincidentally allowed emergency services to have all the equipment needed on standby. Even reports that the explosions appeared to come from under the trains.

You can read thousands if not millions of conspiracy theories and never get to the truth. You can make people vanishing in the beginning of the video mean that it could be you killed too. But these are all our own perceptions and interpretations. I never have shared the same interpretation as you about the vanishing people - I also saw it more as time passing. Never meaning death. Do you get that is your own personal interpretation and you may be in a minority sharing that view?

I would really like you to get that there are a lot of broken hearts as a result of the London Bombings. I am in contact regularly with many of these people. Making this film was something I did out of passion to make a difference for what was important rather than casting my opinions on them and 'messing' with people's heads.

You know, you could be right. Maybe there is fabrication. Who knows? But I will definately request you to be responsible around thinking these victims are fabricated. Right now I am sitting across the room from 2 of Benedetta's photos looking straight in my direction. Behind one of those photos is a bottle of hand cream she used to keep on her office desk. I picked it up from her desk crying my eyes out on the 1st day I was told she was most likely to have been killed in the bombings. I was in pieces and as far as I was concerned, my life was over too. Are you seriously telling me that she didn't really die and it might be fabricated? Am I part of a consipiracy or has Benedetta decided to move to another country and break everyone's heart to think she is dead? Do you know how many people you can offend like this?

Do you have a clue that 9-11 caused nearly 3000 deaths? Do you really believe some internet article may contain the truth? People had to watch planes hit buildings and watch their loved ones die in front of them. Jump out of buildings to their deaths. I take it that you have never been in the same position to lose a loved one under such circumstances. Do you understand you are judging people being outside a situation and not possessing the facts of reality?

If you really want to get to the bottom of it, why don't you visit the families who have lost loved ones. If those inconsolable people are putting it on, they are the greatest actors in the world.

Please respect this fact. The victims are not fabricated. If you want to know the truth about how this film was made, please read this article I put on my website

http://www.lifewithloss.org/lwb/

I actually would like to thank you and acknowledge you for taking time to respond to my message

Raj

Then I consulted Reality Shack about the "Life without Benedetta" video, and some discussion ensued on the 7/7 thread about Raj and his possible alter ego "Bobby Friction" etc. ? and Benedetta Ciaccia being a vicsim.
see: http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... &p=1051261

Simon Shack revealed that tearecords / Andy Lee had already been on Reality Shack under the name Strangedays, making dubious remarks about 9-11 research.

see:
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... &p=1041701


Strangedays:

"Why laugh at my claims to have made a documentary for Channel Four? Here's the link: http://www.teachers.tv/video/28991 "

He is a Reality Shack reader, so he was keen to pick up on our discussion...

Andy Lee 7 Jan 2010

Raj and Bobby
Hi Tim,

Of course Bobby Friction and Raj Babbra aren't the same person! Sometimes I think you are just winding those people at Reality Shack up to see how far they'll go.

I helped Raj finish his film after I met him at a friend's house and he told me he needed some colour correction, sound mixing and subtitling done. He was using his own money to make the film and I agreed to help as he seemed like a good bloke and the project was heartfelt and genuine.

I ended up meeting Carrie Taylor's parents at a screening of the film on the anniversary of 7/7 last year. Bennedetta's sister also came as did some others in Raj's film, including a woman who had been in a carriage opposite a train that was blown up. They were real people who had experienced horrific ordeals, the like of which I hope you or I never have to go through.

When I read the way some of the people on that forum pour scorn on Bennedetta and Carrie's parents and publish photos with comments like, "Carrie Taylor's sexy rocket throat " I actually feel sick. I agree that it is important to question who was behind those events and what actually happened which, if you watched all of the film I made with Bobby Friction, you will have seen that I did. But making fun of people who went through things they can't even imagine the horror of is disgusting and won't advance the search for truth one iota.

I write to you because, despite the comments you posted under Raj's film, I think you seem more reasonable than Simon and his cohorts. Personally, I am fascinated by the process of unraveling truth from the lies we are told and whether it's Global Warming (have they seen the weather recently?) or the European Parliament (or, the Euromillions Rollover as it's now called) I am a skeptic. That doesn't mean I believe everything is fake as that wouldn't be skepticism it would be psychotic and, having been there too, I know the difference.

I am interested because I think it's interesting and important to keep searching for truth. That's all.

All the best,

Andy

I didn’t reply because his general talk and flattery seemed so poisonous. I made a video “debunking” Life without Benedetta. So I blew my chances of having real media-pal.

Andy 10 Jan 2010

Re. FAIR USE OF COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL:
As "Life Without Benedetta" is not a mainstream media production, on behalf of the producer, Raj Babbra, I am disputing your claim of fair use. The video you have made benefits nobody and only hurts the copyright holder who made it as a personal testament to the memory of someone he loved with no political agenda or motive.

I know you don't believe any of this but just imagine for a moment that Raj is telling the truth - how would you feel if someone trashed the memory of a person you loved in the way you have done?

Please can you take these videos down or at least remove any of the copyrighted material you have included.

Thanks,

Andy

This is less mysterious than Hoi's call.
I'm pretty sure "Raj" is just Andy Lee dabbling in some fiction.
hoi.polloi
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Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Revealing stuff. Thanks for sharing.

It's interesting that they pull out the familiar card of 9/11 - as if it is on script to bring up such things every single time any question is asked at all about media fakery.

I also like the one-two paradox punch of "why should September Clues people trust you? you're just winding them up!"

~to~

"You're more reasonable than all them. That's why we're talking."


A little bit of revealing psychology there. You're more "reasonable" for being (allegedly) manipulative of us? Hilarious! And they don't like sex jokes. hahahaha Keep twistin our nipples. I'm really feeling wound up now.

In all seriousness, there is enough research on here to deserve its own category. I'd open up a "7/7 Investigations" to parallel what's being done against 9/11 BS, but the incidents are so intertwined ... well I guess this thread is a good start to it.

Hope you don't find that too flattering. We are demanding integrity from you, tim! (Let's see ... once I figure out how to add another forum. Is '7/7 Investigations' showing up yet for anyone? It should appear under 9/11 Investigations under 'All Topics')
fbenario
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Unread post by fbenario »

["Raj" says, "The exact circumstances are irrelevant."]

I don't like this sentence at all. It gives "Raj", and all the other perps who've used it before, carte blanche to ignore whatever we come up with that shows they are lying.

How insultingly dismissive of our legitimate questions about their "product".
timothymurphy
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Unread post by timothymurphy »

hoi.polloi 4 May 24 2010, 06:12 PM wrote: I'd open up a "7/7 Investigations" to parallel what's being done against 9/11 BS, but the incidents are so intertwined ... well I guess this thread is a good start to it.


If you could arrange a 7/7 forum on Reality Shack that would be very exciting.
(I do feel a bit nervous of the idea)
hoi.polloi
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Unread post by hoi.polloi »

For some reason the new 7/7 Investigations forum is not opening up or appearing. It only appears in the admin panel but it doesn't appear when the site loads. I am trying to figure it out. Bear with me please.

Edit: Okay I figured it out! Just had to set permissions. It's all good. Maybe you can sort of be unofficial moderator of this area for the time being.

Edit again: Just got 77 views today! Nice. :P
timothymurphy
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Unread post by timothymurphy »

hoi.polloi @ May 26 2010, 10:16 PM wrote:
Edit again: Just got 77 views today! Nice. :P
hehe - I noticed that too...

wasn't sure how well down it would go from me, though! B)
hoi.polloi
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Unread post by hoi.polloi »

hehe, as long as we don't take any of the perp behavior too seriously, it makes people laugh instead of freaking them out.

There is something to the numbers the perps use by ancient tradition, but every counter can accidentally pass through these 'significant' numbers too, and then it's not likely perps are involved.
timothymurphy
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Unread post by timothymurphy »

hoi.polloi @ May 30 2010, 06:15 PM wrote: hehe, as long as we don't take any of the perp behavior too seriously, it makes people laugh instead of freaking them out.

There is something to the numbers the perps use by ancient tradition, but every counter can accidentally pass through these 'significant' numbers too, and then it's not likely perps are involved.
It's true they are funny!

A few months ago I was snooping on the myspace page of an associate of Raj Babra - He had 77 myspace friends.

I thought: wtf? Why is he wasting his time making sure he's got 77 friends!

Well, I just checked that page again for curiosity, and now he's got 76...

either:
1.someone de-friended him to mess up his numerology, on purpose
2. It was just a coincidence - no numerology.
3. Myspace is pass? so nobody cares.
hoi.polloi
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Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Now we are getting way off topic but I can't help but consider they reset their numbers periodically so that it stays roughly around their target number.

Kind of like when Simon's hit counter was resetting to random numbers between 1 and 1025 upon refreshing the social service page. Or when Google artificially reset the view count of September Clues by several thousand viewers!
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