If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.
Good posts, Terence and Icarus; and Simon, you inspired me! — I thought it was time NASA's plague, er, plaques of lies had a rewrite for accuracy too So instead of, “Here men from the planet Earth first set foot upon the Moon July 1969, A.D. We came in peace for all mankind”, it should read:
And, “Here man completed his explorations of the Moon December 1972, A.D. May the spirit of peace in which we came be reflected in the lives of all mankind", changed to:
Mixing the absurd with irony makes good satire... like this modern Navajo myth I found:
The Navajo and the Astronaut
Back in the 1960s a NASA team doing work for the Apollo moon mission took the astronauts near Tuba City where the terrain of the Navajo Reservation looks very much like the Lunar surface.
Along with all the trucks and large vehicles, there were two large figures dressed in full Lunar spacesuits.
Nearby a Navajo sheep herder and his son were watching the strange creatures walk about, occasionally being tended by personnel. The two Navajo people were noticed and approached by the NASA personnel.
Since the man did not understand or speak English, his son asked for him what the strange creatures were and the NASA people told them that they are just men that are getting ready to go to the moon. The man became very excited and asked if he could send a message to the moon with the astronauts.
The NASA personnel thought this was a great idea so they rustled up a tape recorder. After the man gave them his message, they asked his son to translate. His son would not.
Later, they tried a few more people on the reservation to translate and every person they asked would chuckle and then refuse to translate. Finally, with cash in hand, someone translated the message, "Watch out for these guys, they come to take your land."
That's some brilliant, badass(-tronut) photoshopping!
I presume it's your work? If so, I'm sure NASA will soon contact you with a plum job on offer !
Well, I hope not, actually - we all need you to stay with us and help us keep our valiant Earthship in orbit.
Thanks Simon! Yep, that's my watermark sig so I take full responsibility for it (The 'Appalling 11' is a bit patchy though, it was really hard to get those letters curved right & on a shiny surface )
Maat, I'm impressed by your creativity- it looks so close to the real thing!
Now: you've highlit something else for me- the devil (and salvation) is often in the detail...
Is it the case that the A11 plaque has a pro-style acid-etched surface, with the line drawing and letters intaglio blacked-in tough below the surface...the way you'd design a plaque to survive showers of micrometeorites for millenia, whilst conversely: don't the later plaques look like the specification gets weaker? More like silk-screened surface ink, of the kind that would wear-off with the toe of a casual moon-boot...see what I mean with the A16 plaque?
And why, I wonder, does A16 merit a double plaque attack?
Also, on the continuing topic of NASA plaques surviving the ravages of space...here's how Pioneer is reaching out to 40,000 years in the future...it's from the same year as A17, that would be 1972. Maybe the same graphics company did the Apollo ones??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_plaque wrote:The plaques were attached to the spacecraft's antenna support struts in a position that would shield them from erosion by stellar dust.
...And totally-obscure the circle representing the sun at the centre of our local universe (as per the graphic). The in-situ photograpgh looks more like a university undergrad project lash-up, than a careful aerospace materials construction bound for eternity. But you can always rely upon hose-clips... hey, they got us to the moon and back (although these Voyager ones look more like nylon 66 than metal to me)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_plaque wrote:
The original idea, that the Pioneer spacecraft should carry a message from humankind, was first mentioned by Eric Burgess when he visited the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, during the Mariner 9 mission. He approached Carl Sagan, who had lectured about communication with extraterrestrial intelligences at a conference in Crimea.
Sagan was enthusiastic about the idea of sending a message with the Pioneer spacecraft. NASA agreed to the plan and gave him three weeks to prepare a message. Together with Frank Drake he designed the plaque, and the artwork was prepared by Sagan's then-wife Linda Salzman Sagan.
Both plaques were manufactured at Precision Engravers, San Carlos, California.
The first plaque was launched with Pioneer 10 on March 2, 1972, and the second followed with Pioneer 11 on April 5, 1973.
My skeptic-sense is tingling aplenty with all this, now I look at it again after 40yrs and really worry.
Back then, as a child, I bought it, totally, and was humbled by the concepts. Now, as a grizzled doubting adult, I feel betrayed.
That is brilliant Maat !
This is crap in comparison ...I took Simon's plaque and made the worlds wake up from their TV induced slumber..
icarusinbound wrote: Terence.drew wrote:This plaque is a ludicrous attempt to communicate with the future
Yes, but it's more like a Schrodinger's Cat for the future. A still-to-be-revealed hand of cards, a trigger pulled but the bullet not yet fired...a massive bluff. And the interim winners are led by Armstrong, for whom this was an unconsummated 'reality'....though to see him, dragged back to 2012 via YouTube as the Spirit of '69, no-one displays as much tormented doubt about the unrealities of the mission as he does.
icarus .. spot on man . It's only a ludicrous attempt from the point of view of an actual mission
If we take the Plaque and the famous words Neil utters what muds sticks to the wall?
THAT'S ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN, ONE GIANT STEP FOR MANKIND
HERE MEN FROM THE PLANET EARTH FIRST SET FOOT UPON THE MOON JULY 1969, A.D. WE CAME IN PEACE FOR ALL MANKIND
We have
1. MEN/MAN/MANKIND
2.FEET/FOOT/STEP(FIRST)/WALKING/THE FAMOUS FIRST FOOTPRINT
Note: We didn't just go to the moon...we WALKED ON IT.
Now think of the Baby floating in space at the end of 2001 A space...
NASA took the horrors of the Wars etc. of the 20th century and used the moon landings to create a 'new man'...a newly birthed man taking it's first steps in a new world. The slate is wiped clean. I think this is why people hang onto the moon landings until their finger nails bleed.
They remember that feeling of humanity taking it's first baby step on an untainted virgin world ....'We come in peace' etc..
Ok. Hi all - first post. I've done the intro bit too!
I apologise for the length of this post but stick with it - the ending is, I feel, rather worth waiting for.
I'm about halfway through this thread but thought I'd post this now so that hopefully, when I get to this page, I may have some responses.
What made me first seriously doubt the whole moon landings claim was a magazine my brother showed me back in the 90s.
I can't remember exactly when it was but am 95% sure it was around 1997 (could have been 96 or 98 but something in my mind tells me it was 1997). Now I'm afraid I do not recall the name of the magazine, but I know it was in English and I'm pretty sure the whole magazine was dedicated to the moon landings hoax (or certainly a major part of it). The front cover was a picture of an astronot standing (allegedly) on the moon.
Many of the photos and conjecture contained within it has been discussed to death on the internet and forums such as this (shadows, crosshairs from the camera, moon dust on the LEM feet etc.) BUT there was one picture that, above all, had the greatest impact on me and was the main reason to suggest, beyond doubt, that it was all faked.
I have trawled the internet many times to try and find this picture, but all to no avail. I know I didn't dream it - I can remember my brother pointing at the picture in an excited manner saying "Come on then - explain that!". But I've never seen that picture again.
Now I don't recall when the magazine was published but it couldn't have been any later than when he showed it to me (obviously), so it must have been about 1997 at the latest. But again, something in my mind suggests to me that it may have been a year or two old at the time I saw it, so let's say it was published in the mid 1990s.
I mention this because at that point in time (as was the case for 1997), the internet was still very much in its infancy and there were a tiny number of sites about most things, much less conspiracy sites, in those days. So I guess that back then magazines and books were still the number one way of learning about things. There was of course few outlets then to share your views and opinions as there is now.
Anyway, I digress so back to the main point.
The picture I'm referring to (and I've no idea now which Apollo mission it was based on but I'm guessing 11) was, in a word, earth shattering (ok, I know - two words).
So what was it? It was a close up picture, taken from memory from almost directly above but at a slight angle, of one of the LEMs feet/pads. You know, the saucer shaped foot/pad with the gold foil, sticky tape and protruding leg up towards the main body of the LEM.
Why was it so special then? Well, firstly it was a colour picture and crystal clear, hence a lot of fine detail. But what else?
Well this bit is where this may sound crazy, and this is the reason I've hunted this picture so often, but never found it. It showed the foot/pad half covering, yes, HALF COVERING, one of the astronots boot prints in the dust!
I'm sure I don't need to explain what this means, but just in case; How on earth (excuse the pun) did the boot print get there in the moon dust/soil BEFORE the LEM landed? Unless of course the two astronots picked up the LEM and man-handled it a couple of feet and plonked it back down again and in so doing half covering a boot print. Ok, that obviously didn't happen, so we're back to the question; How did that happen?
Has anybody else ever seen either this picture on the internet, in a book or magazine before? Has anybody else seen it anywhere? I'm sure I'm not going nuts because that was, above all others, the picture I remember most - it has stuck in my mind vividly for the last 15 years or so!
Whether people have or not is one thing, but there is another question; Back then, in the mid 90s, I doubt many people really knew how much the internet was going to take off, and probably even less so the idea of conspiracy theory sites. So at that point in time few people had the tools to do their own research. The vast majority of pictures and opinions in that magazine have been repeated and discussed millions of times since on the net, and indeed I have seen many of the same pictures myself numerous times.
But what about that picture with the half covered boot print? Was that a faked one, in amongst all the real ones? Or was it real too? If so, why can't I find it now? I'm guessing because I've never found or seen it since on the net, few, if any, of you here would have seen it.
Was this picture obtained several years before (maybe even in the 70s or 80s) with all the others direct from NASA archives, without them realising what it showed? But NOT available via the internet, as of course it didn't exist then? So back then it was freely available (with lord knows how many other gems) but following the article and the advent/power of the internet back in the mid 90s, NASA purged their archives of this picture (and quite likely others too) hence it's never been seen since? Again, at that time people simply didn't have the tools or ability of obtaining these sorts of pictures themselves to conduct their own research, so if you like NASA had plenty of time to 'clean up' their archives?
Maybe it was secretly released by a whistle-blower?
I don't know but I know what I saw and I'd be very interested if anybody here has any knowledge of this picture, or has even heard rumours of it before? If not, then I guess I'm kicking off a whole new topic for debate!
Terence.drew wrote:
NASA are clever lads. Or were clever lads.
I beg to differ from that statement of 'cleverness', Terence.
The only NASA's "cleverness" has been that of exploiting the public's gullibility - with the obvious, total support of the folks who created NASA in the first place: the corrupt leaders of the US government - and the corrupt leaders of the entire Western world - including USSR/Russia, China and Japan. Such a sweeping statement probably sounds crazy. But this world IS a crazy place.
The all-powerful mafia-style organization comprising NASA/the News Media/Universities/Bankers/Politicians (I like to call it "he Nutwork") has taken over this planet. All we need to do now (heh - sounds a bit too easy, eh?) is to awaken the masses to this state of affairs. At this time, this wishful thinking of mine may sound bleak and weak - but it is just as bleak and weak as the Nutwork's own antics. We the (normal and sane) people should now start looking at this game like a good chess player would.
Ok, so that's your move, you silly "Nutwork", eh? We the people respond with this other move!
Of course, such moves need unity - and I have no idea (or much less any means) of how to achieve this. The powerbase that the PTB have established for themselves seems to be, at this historical moment in time, infrangible. They control the entire world's information channels - and even this little internet window which allows this forum to exist. For how long? So long as we attract an average of 'only' 200.000 monthly visits, we may be left alone and simply ignored. I suppose.
I haven't read every bit of this thread yet, but I was curious if anyone has speculated if there ever was the intention to get to the moon, or if the leading minds of the day KNEW there was absolutely no available technology to get there and unlikely to be any technology anytime soon. If there was an effort to get there, how quickly did they realize there was no hope of meeting any deadlines, and then decided to become a movie studio agency?
Finally, what do you think they could have achieved by now if they had actually spent all that money over the past 50 years on getting into space?
That's kind of you, and undoubtedly some nicer people may have had that kind of attitude before they became hopelessly corrupt by not telling the truth about what they did for fifty years! Innocence lost.
Terence.drew wrote:That is brilliant Maat !
This is crap in comparison ...I took Simon's plaque and made the worlds wake up from their TV induced slumber..
“Crap” ? Au contraire, dear Terence — your clever graphical addition there is actually the kind of spontaneous perceptional brilliance I really admire, and what can help inspire us all as like-minded social beings to deal with and make sense of the surreal absurdities of our mass deluded world. I think we need frequent creative, comic and musical expressions as a relief and outlet for our frustrations — otherwise the negative state of things would become too depressing.
I always enjoy the irony of using their own weapons of fakery against them at every opportunity.
That old adage of a “picture speaks a thousand words” is so true in our visually dominated existence. We think in pictures and concepts after all, then try to communicate our ideas by wrestling them into words — with much lost in translation and dependent upon the readers’ perceptional associations as well. (That's why I like poetry, especially Haiku — painting metaphorical mindscapes with minimal words)
icarusinbound wrote:Maat, I'm impressed by your creativity- it looks so close to the real thing!
Now: you've highlit something else for me- the devil (and salvation) is often in the detail...
Is it the case that the A11 plaque has a pro-style acid-etched surface, with the line drawing and letters intaglio blacked-in tough below the surface...the way you'd design a plaque to survive showers of micrometeorites for millennia, whilst conversely: don't the later plaques look like the specification gets weaker? More like silk-screened surface ink, of the kind that would wear-off with the toe of a casual moon-boot...see what I mean with the A16 plaque?
Thanks Icarus
Yes, I know what you mean. Although difficult to tell from images, they do appear rather superficial and cheaply done — the later ones look like after thoughts. But I betcha anything the NASSholes’ stock answer would be that those are just reproduction copies of the expensive, state-of-the-art “real thing” (a la ‘limited edition’ prints of an artist’s original work). They know that no one could prove otherwise
Do we see on the right hand side of gold-clad leg of landing craft the faint ribbed striations of a human footprint partially coverd by round foot of the lunar craft ?
Terence.drew wrote:That is brilliant Maat !
This is crap in comparison ...I took Simon's plaque and made the worlds wake up from their TV induced slumber..
“Crap” ? Au contraire, dear Terence — your clever graphical addition there is actually the kind of spontaneous perceptional brilliance I really admire, and what can help inspire us all as like-minded social beings to deal with and make sense of the surreal absurdities of our mass deluded world.
I have noticed a common feature of the NASA asstronots as they appear in public. They all seem to have a compulsive need to emphasise/press home the wondrous tales of their 'daring exploits' with constant hand gestures - and some pretty dramatic ones too. In fact, their gesturing would make a fruit salesman in Naples look almost stale and composed in comparison!
The below gifs are extracted from a 2011 video featuring three veteran asstronots (Jim Lovell, Gene Cernan and Neil Armstrong) entertaining the US troops in Afghanistan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXJByoPNp8w
Here's Jim Lovell - as he explains how he could hide Mother Earth behind his thumb from space - and making some sort of philosophical statement as to how very small and insignificant our planet is...
Gene Cernan also feels the need to "hand-paint in the void" his Apollo 10 adventures with constant, sweeping hand gestures:
And of course, Neil Armstrong - the Master Gesticulator:
To be sure, learning to use hand gestures for persuasive power is certainly part of Neuro Linguistic Programming training: NLP - The Power of Gestures : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qJW0K_PhRI
And just for funs...
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVCuyrPk7P4
— I thought it was time NASA's plague, er, plaques of lies had a rewrite for accuracy too 
So instead of, 
Thanks Simon! Yep, that's my watermark sig so I take full responsibility for it 
)
... 
